Halloween ambush

This is a discussion on Halloween ambush within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This is exactly the kind of situation that can wind up ruining your life and that of your family. Dialing 911, yelling for them to ...

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Thread: Halloween ambush

  1. #16
    Ron
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    This is exactly the kind of situation that can wind up ruining your life and that of your family. Dialing 911, yelling for them to stop, trying to stop traffic if you can safely do so, are all great ideas. But brandishing your gun, or worse winding up having to shoot a teenager, can prove to be your worst nightmare came to pass. What happens thereafter will often depend upon who you shot, race, the personal political ambitions of the prosecutor, influence of the family of the kid you shot, can all result in your being indicted and having to face a criminal trial and then most likely a civil suit for damages. Even if exonerated, the cost of your defense can be financially devastating. And the fact that the shooting was legally justified may have little to do with your ultimate fate. What to you was a potentially life threatening situation, can be argued on hindsight to have been nothing more then a childish prank, not justifying the use of deadly force. I hate to sound cynical, but that is the current reality of our criminal justice system. Unless it is your family, and there is a clear and present threat to their life or of serious physical injury, it is, in my opinion, far too risky to get involved. I suppose others here will disagree, but that is how I look at these kind of recurring scenarios.

    Ron

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array Daddy Warcrimes's Avatar
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    As a proactive measure, you might make a habit of changing lanes under bridges (depending on your level of paranioa).

    Dropped from that hight, an object can easily reach a speed upwards of 30 feet per second. This is a serious threat to life and there are plenty of examples of such actions resulting in death (one that comes to mind involves GI children in Germany). The problem of course is that even even if it results in death, this will be seen by many as just a harmless prank.
    "and suddenly I can not hold back my sword hand's anger"

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  4. #18
    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daddy Warcrimes View Post
    Dropped from that hight, an object can easily reach a speed upwards of 30 feet per second.
    The falling velocity is the least of your worries. The velocity of the car (relative to the rock/pumpkin) is going to be quite a bit higher. 60mph works out to 88 feet per second. To reach that velocity, a rock would have to be dropped from over 120 feet.

    Getting a big rock through your windshield at highway speeds is going to ruin your day regardless of the height it fell from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    The falling velocity is the least of your worries. The velocity of the car (relative to the rock/pumpkin) is going to be quite a bit higher. 60mph works out to 88 feet per second. To reach that velocity, a rock would have to be dropped from over 120 feet.

    Getting a big rock through your windshield at highway speeds is going to ruin your day regardless of the height it fell from.

    Adding the vehicle speed is probably more important than the velocity added by the fall, most overpasses aren't more than 25 feet. The train tressle that the block was dropped on me was unusual in that it is between 75 & 100 feet above the road.
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  6. #20
    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinsonre View Post
    Interesting dilemma...

    On one hand they very well COULD kill someone by doing this sort of thing.

    On the other hand if you tried to detain them and they decided they wanted to fight back you might have a hard time explaining to the police why you pulled your gun and shot a couple of teenagers pulling a dumb prank.

    That's a tough one....
    even a totally idiot kid would mess them self when confronted with a pumpkin vs gun situation, they would either
    A. run like the H e double L or...
    B. mess them self and start crying right on the spot.
    You have a duty to stop them before they actually succeed in killing someone with their stupidity.
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

  7. #21
    Member Array PolarBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon J View Post
    even a totally idiot kid would mess them self when confronted with a pumpkin vs gun situation, they would either
    A. run like the H e double L or...
    B. mess them self and start crying right on the spot.
    You have a duty to stop them before they actually succeed in killing someone with their stupidity.
    Don't bet on it. A lot of things could go wrong.

    This is NOT a situation where you want to try to detain them or even approach them, even if you are an LEO. Most LEO training says NOT to go charging up there, in a situation like this, to save the day without backup. You would be alone and out numbered, approaching an unknown number of suspects, who may or may not be armed, and they have good cover in the high ground. This is a BAD situation.

    Call the police, take cover, then in a loud commanding voice tell them to "Stop and show me your hands", most likely they will run. If they do, try to remember how many there were, which way they went, and what each was wearing. If you can get that info to 911 ASAP great, otherwise tell the first officer on the scene.

    I do agree that in this situation the kids would most likely run when confronted. And as I said earlier, an "authoritative command" from a distance should do the trick. But if they do decide to approach you, they are the ones doing it not you. Any approach by them would be seen as a form of aggression towards you. And if you do end up having to pull your gun, or worse, it would be much easier to explain.
    "Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud..."
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  8. #22
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    Even if exonerated, the cost of your defense can be financially devastating. And the fact that the shooting was legally justified may have little to do with your ultimate fate. What to you was a potentially life threatening situation, can be argued on hindsight to have been nothing more then a childish prank, not justifying the use of deadly force.

    I'm not saying whether it does or does not justify the use of deadly force, but what I will say is that if I were in a position to have to defend using a gun on these criminal pranksters, you can bet I would be directing my attorney research and collect a dossier full of highway deaths attributed to objects thrown off overpasses, along with the pictures of the pretty prom queens before the tragedy that took them from their mommies and daddies, and the after pictures as well. And I'd instruct him to inform the jury that I had been aware of the deadly potential of thrown missiles. (That's probably what they'd be called in a police report, isn't it?)

  9. #23
    Member Array Huzar's Avatar
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    About 8 years ago or so a kid of an american serviceman serving on base in Germany has dropped rocks from an overpass onto the passing cars. IIRC end result was at least 1 person dead. So it's easy for something like that to turn deadly.

    What would I do? I would clear out ASAP so that a car would not nail me as it's coming out and maybe evading a pumpkin. Heck I would clear out so that I would not get nailed with a pumpkin without a protective shell of my car!

    Then I'd grab road flares, I'd light them up and toss them into the tunnel.

    Then I would call 911 and observe. See if they had cars or something else that would help me identify them to cops when they fled.

    Would I charge them? Nope, for a lot of reasons:
    1. They hold the higher ground. I believe that throughout the ages it has been proven that if you want to charge someone who has higher ground you'd have to expect a lot of casualties.
    2. How is the approach? If it's anything like what I'm used to seeing around town here then it'd be really exposed. If they are stupid enough to throw pumpkins down and they are masked, what if they are drunk, or on drugs or just plain nuts and ARMED? Heck, even a lucky shot from a pellet gun can suck should it hit you in the eye or another part of your anatomy that is rather vunerable.
    3. If you end up going up against them and you have to shoot you seeked confrontation. I believe that it won't stand up in court (at least not in SoCal). You were already out of harms way and your CCW is meant for your and your protection only and is not a license to play a cop. Your duty at that point as a citizen is to report the crime and sit back and let the "professionals" deal with it.

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