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Stopping Threats?

This is a discussion on Stopping Threats? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Real gun, toy gun, empty gun, any gun--no difference....

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Thread: Stopping Threats?

  1. #46
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    Real gun, toy gun, empty gun, any gun--no difference.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield


  2. #47
    VIP Member Array SmokinFool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldnfat View Post
    In his scenario no one was murdered or shot. For all we know the gun might not have even been real. If the scenario was the BG ran in and began shooting, it's game on. No hesitation.
    Yes, I realize what the scenario was. I was simply stating my new found attitude regarding shooter situations in general. My actions would be dictated by the BG's actions, so as long as he hasn't shot anyone or is not directly threatening anyone he will not go home carrying any of my lead in him.

  3. #48
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    There are too few details and too many variables for any kind of honest answer. Does he have a partner, just how angry or mean, or desperate does he seem? What kind of gun does he have? Do I have a clear shot? Was I lazy today and only brought one gun? How accessible is my gun? Just what ARE my options? If he is just robbing the store who cares, really? All kinds of things go through your mind when the SHTF.

    One time about 25 years ago I had this young felon at gunpoint hoping he would make the smart decision and drop his knife and come along nicely. I was worried that if I shot him I would get in trouble because the ammo in my gun was not approved by department policy. I was in the grocery with my wife, a hold up man came in with a sawed off shotgun, his partner was in the car out front, he was beating and pistol whipping the manager, I thought he was going to kill the manager so I involved myself and saved the manager. When I acted his partner took off. No two situations are the same.
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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by pittypat21 View Post
    The "legal answer" is a matter of state law. If your state expressly forbids taking down a shooter unless your life directly is on the line, then so be it, that's the legal answer. However, many states authorize the use of deadly force in defense of yourself, a third party, or even against someone who is committing a forcible felony. Active shooter in a mall gets you AT LEAST 2 out of those three.

    Suggesting that "everyone being shot at had the chance and right to take a CCW class and obtain a license" is first off, ridiculous. Not everybody can. You know who goes to malls? Teenagers. Teenagers can't carry a weapon. Maybe people that smoke a little weed years ago and got caught for it, and now their minor drug charge means they can't defend themselves. No, my friend, not everyone has the chance and right to take a CCW class. And suggesting that because they didn't some how means that they don't deserve protection, or it's their own fault if they die, is asinine. The age old excuse of "I'm not a cop" doesn't fly with me. Who the hell ever said that you have to be a cop to protect people? Who ever said only cops can stop criminals? It's ridiculous. That is why the law affords people the right and legal ability to defend themselves and others.
    Well that is why I included the Moral part of the answer. Maybe the guy you just shot was a store keeper that was shooting at the real bad guy. Keep in mind that Zimmerman thought that he was providing the public a service, and it got him in more trouble than he counted on.

  5. #50
    Member Array mbguy29577's Avatar
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    Its always tough to answer a scenario question since variables play a huge role. How many people are in front of you blocking the BG, people start to scream and scramble, are there more than one, is there a cop in line too and he thinks you may be part of the BG gang, it can be a mess but personally, if I feel threatened, bang, bang, bang and finish paying for my waffles.
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  6. #51
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    Options 1 & 2 are out. Three's the only choice for me. The BG's already threatened me so he gets taken out at the first opportunity.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyB1954 View Post
    Well that is why I included the Moral part of the answer. Maybe the guy you just shot was a store keeper that was shooting at the real bad guy. Keep in mind that Zimmerman thought that he was providing the public a service, and it got him in more trouble than he counted on.
    Did you even bother to read the OP's scenerio? Apparently not. Let me help you out here:

    Scenario: You are in line at the counter of a convenience store, maybe 2 or 3 back in line.
    In bursts a BG with a pistol. He points it at the clerk and demands money. He waves it at the customers and tells us all to get back.

    I think that eliminates teh store keeper coming in and demanding money and threatening the customers.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  8. #53
    Senior Member Array KBSR's Avatar
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    RightsEroding, the fact that your SA has ramped up, is a GOOD thing.

    I've posted many times on here that "When/Then" thinking, not "What if" thinking will keep you alive in a critical incident. If you practice W/T thinking all the time, you'll have a plan when you walk into that store, and thus won't have to "react", you'll be acting on a previously thought out plan. Action is always faster than reaction.

    Because I'm constantly in the W/T mode, I know what I'd do in your scenario. First of all, the bad guy wouldn't burst into the place unnoticed, because I'd be watching the door, while standing in the store. It's what I do, because I have a plan. As soon as I saw him coming, I'd be seeking cover, not concealment. I'd then engage him, right now, with extreme violence, to prevent him from hurting me, or anyone else in the store. I'm aware of the consequences, should my aim not be true, which is why I practice and train all the time.

    Everyone shouldn't choose this course of action though, and if you aren't "all in", you're better off running and hiding, and hoping for the best. If you aren't prepared and trained to do this, you'll be more of a liability IMHO. Because of my decades of law enforcement training and experience, I'd give this BG one opportunity to surrender, if the gun wasn't pointed directly at me or anyone else. His decision to live or die.

    I really don't think the question regarding answering questions from the stand is relevant. You are innocent until proven guilty, and most defendants don't take the stand in their own defense. If I chose to testify, I'd testify honestly that I didn't shoot him to kill him. I shot him to stop the threat. Lethal force was justified in this instance, and I defended myself and others. I'd like my chances on the stand, given your scenario.

    Be safe.
    " But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself... Baa." Col. Dave Grossman on Sheep and Sheepdogs.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Check your six carefully before you start playing cards.
    This, given the OP's scenario.
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    QUANTITATIVE AMMUNITION SELECTION

  10. #55
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    Stopping Threats?

    Since the BG waved his gun at me that is enough for me to consider this a legitimate threat to my life. Finding adequate cover would be my first priority and I would draw my weapon trying to remain as unnoticed as possible. Next, I'd do a quick scan of the other customers to see if any others have drawn a weapon. If there is another customer with a gun drawn, I'll try to communicate with them somehow to avoid being confused as a second BG.

    Finally, I'd check for a clean backdrop and take two shots to center mass.

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