Stopping Threats?

This is a discussion on Stopping Threats? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have read much law concerning the legal justification for a armed citizen to use deadly force. I am also well aware of the legal ...

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  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array RightsEroding's Avatar
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    Stopping Threats?

    I have read much law concerning the legal justification for a armed citizen to use deadly force.
    I am also well aware of the legal quagmire if we ever have to use the final solution. With that said, I am curious how you all would handle this and what to expect from a legal point of view.

    Scenario: You are in line at the counter of a convenience store, maybe 2 or 3 back in line.
    In bursts a BG with a pistol. He points it at the clerk and demands money. He waves it at the customers and tells us all to get back.
    The customers as is natural all retreat somewhat.

    I see a few choices for me the armed citizen.

    1) Comply and hope he just leaves w/o incident.
    2) Wait and see how the robbery develops.
    3) End the threat.

    Personally I have real issues with 1 & 2.

    1) Compliance is never a insurance policy that the criminal element won't injure me.
    2) Waiting for the dynamics to develop seems to put the advantage in the BG's court.

    IMO; because the criminal mind in the midst of a violent criminal act does not even consider giving the victim any advantage whatsoever;
    I am of the ilk and mindset to quietly unholster my gun and terminate the threat.

    If more info is needed to answer the scenario, I will be happy to provide, but I think we get the idea.

    Legally; is this going to be a serious mess?
    "When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much." Ronald Reagan

    Do what you can; then do what you must

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    Member Array AZ_Larz_NY's Avatar
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    Now, if I was in the store and this happened, I would draw my gun and fire until the threat was stopped. I was in fear for my life and those lives around me.

    Be safe!
    msgt/ret likes this.
    NEVER point a gun at something you are not prepared to destroy!
    AND for GODS sake, get your finger off the trigger until you are ready to squeeze the trigger!

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    Every state has different tweaks in their 'use of deadly force' laws, so you really need to look at the specific laws that apply to you. From a generic perspective I'd say with a good Castle Doctrine, you wouldn't need any more than a BG pointing a pistol at anyone; you can use deadly force to protect a third party if you fear for their life.

    That said, since you are asking specifically about legally, I'd say the only way to get an iron clad answer would be to look at your specific laws, which I do not know.
    Secret Spuk and atctimmy like this.
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    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    When he says to get back, seeking cover/concealment would be adviseable. Then you are placing yourself at an advantage if you decide to shoot the bad guy as opposed to standing in the open for him to have a clear shot back at you, or see you draw your gun and take aim.
    BenGoodLuck likes this.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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    Check your six carefully before you start playing cards.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
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    Member Array GetSmith's Avatar
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    In the heat of the moment you would not be worried about legalities. Once you unholster your weapon you have changed the game, for better or worse you have to live with the repercussions of your actions. Maybe the BG is startled by your gun and shoots someone. Maybe you miss your shot and take out an innocent.

    If I was in the scenario you described I would not feel compelled to protect anybody but myself. It's my duty to go home to my wife and kids at the end of the day. The store cleark should have had a pistol or shotgun behind the counter.

    Unless my families life is in direct danger I'm going to lie low and retreat if possible. If I wanted to strap on a gun to protect society I would have became a cop.
    Cdknox, jjfitch and ninjahippie like this.

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    Senior Member Array wishyouwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Check your six carefully before you start playing cards.

    Scanning for the scumbag accomplice?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wishyouwell View Post
    Scanning for the scumbag accomplice?
    The one standing behind you near the entrance.
    wishyouwell and Secret Spuk like this.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
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    VIP Member Array Doghandler's Avatar
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    re: Stopping Threats?

    Know the law. Know yourself .
    There is a solution but we are not Jedi... not yet.
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    Distinguished Member Array RightsEroding's Avatar
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    Nothing wrong with the title.
    It is a scenario.
    You all can argue and play semantics all you want.

    I said "Kill"..Not murder. Big difference.

    If ever asked on the stand by the state "Did YOU kill the robber?" I would have to answer yes unless my Defense attorney objected to the question.
    "When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much." Ronald Reagan

    Do what you can; then do what you must

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    Distinguished Member Array RightsEroding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GetSmith View Post
    If I wanted to strap on a gun to protect society I would have became a cop.
    LE walks into the fray..in this scenario, the violence is thrust upon you; you didn't go looking to prevent a criminal act.
    The only difference is you are there at that moment, the LE officer is not.

    I do find your response interesting though. Not one I would choose however.
    "When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much." Ronald Reagan

    Do what you can; then do what you must

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    Member Array Jdunn217's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RightsEroding View Post
    If ever asked on the stand by the state "Did YOU kill the robber?" I would have to answer yes unless my Defense attorney objected to the question.
    I'd personally say "I defended myself until the threat stopped" Never blatantly say you killed the bg on the stand. Although I hope said defense attorney would tell you that one!

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    Member Array GetSmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RightsEroding View Post
    LE walks into the fray..in this scenario, the violence is thrust upon you; you didn't go looking to prevent a criminal act.
    The only difference is you are there at that moment, the LE officer is not.

    I do find your response interesting though. Not one I would choose however.
    In all honesty very few of us punching keys behind a computer screen know for certain how we would act in that scenario. You may say that you would pull a dirty harry on the bad guy but buckle in the heat of the moment. I may say I would back down but stand my ground when the moment came.

    Much of what would happen would depend upon the situation and your awareness in the moment. All we can do is train to be ready for any eventuality. I can say for certain unless my families life is in direct danger I would check my six carefully before playing cards. If my family is threatened I'll throw the card table over.

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    Distinguished Member Array RightsEroding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdunn217 View Post
    I'd personally say "I defended myself until the threat stopped" Never blatantly say you killed the bg on the stand. Although I hope said defense attorney would tell you that one!
    Good try. The question elicits a YES or NO answer..anything else will appear evasive. Jury's see thru the garbage and want plain talk since we American's are plain folk.
    I seriously doubt, after the facts were presented to a jury, that they would or could find any citizen guilty given the info in this scenario.
    "When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much." Ronald Reagan

    Do what you can; then do what you must

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    Distinguished Member Array RightsEroding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GetSmith View Post
    In all honesty very few of us punching keys behind a computer screen know for certain how we would act in that scenario
    Agreed; though I am a firm believer in exercising "what if" scenarios. I obviously can not train my body to the actual incident, but if my mind re-runs the film often enough; at least that part is trained as well as possible.

    Since beginning to carry a weapon, I have noticed my (SA) Situational awareness is ramped up. It does not pre-occupy me, but I always play a scenario of "what if" when I walk into a place.
    I think its good.

    I chose the gas station convenience store because they are often targets of the smash and grab criminals..often with guns.
    pittypat21 likes this.
    "When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much." Ronald Reagan

    Do what you can; then do what you must

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