Recently my girlfriend and I have been receiving threats from a group of people. They are mostly threatening me. I have received voice mails and many calls where they threaten to “get me”.
My question is if a group of people try to attack me, with or without weapons. Say two or more people. Do I have the right to pull my gun on them?
My concern is if I don’t stop them from getting close to me, they will disarm me, and use my weapon against me. That is a worst case scenario.
You don't say whether this ''group'' is known to you or totally anonymous. If known then you have an edge and maybe know where they hang out or are likely to be - avoidance there being a possibility.
However this is harrassment and needs mentioned to your phone company. For most part they are probably gaining vicarious satisfaction from yanking your chain but they could also be malicious in physical intent - hard to know what their motives might be beyond enjoying harrassment. Is there anything you have done to upset these folks? - that's something we need to know too - all part of assessing their motivation.
Your ''right'' to pull a gun can only be based on threat assessment, and weight of numbers could satisfy that sometimes. You have to judge your perceived threat level.
If you think this is likely to lead to a physical confrontation of any sort, report the threats to the police ASAP, and report each recurrence.
I know the group of people. They also probably know that I have a ccw permit.
They have made specific threats to be waiting outside my work when I get out at night.
They are the typical gangster wannabe type.
I have made every attempt to not be associated with them. Whenever possible I avoid them at all costs.
They don’t like me because of an ex-girlfriend. It is an unfortunate situation that I in no way have brought upon myself.
Some things to consider:
1. How serious a threat do you consider these individuals to be?
2. Do they have a history of violence you are aware of?
IMHO, it is vital to get the threats on record with your local law enforcement agency.
Listen to Chris and Matt. Call both the police and the phone company to report this and have a police report open to this. Go to radio shack and pick up a recorder that you can record the phone calls and/or the in person conversations if there happen to be any. This device will work for both cell phones and LAN lines.
Here's the thing, the longer this goes on the more these wannabe's will believe what they are saying and eventually will grow enough ball's to do something or will have to in order to gain or keep the respect of the group. This is why I say do not take this lightly and consider all threat's made to be true and that they will happen. If they are being specific with the threats it is time to be concerned and do yourself a favor and call the cop's now and continue to call them everytime a threat happens. If you eventually have to defend yourself, it is on record. Law enforcement has no obligation to protect you and that is why we carry, they are there to write reports and documentr things as they happen and you report them.
Next, if confronted or called I would be telling them that the cop's are involved that they know who you are and that they are being watched wheter they are or not. I wouldn't mention the recorder right away unless the threat's keep happening and you have several recorded already. The phone company can give you the numbers of the one's calling as well. More paper trail to sink them.
You have every right to defend yourself if you have to, just follow the advice given and start the paper trail documenting everthing. You could even get restraining orders after a few recorded threats. The RO's won't keep them from coming after you but it is in your best interest to show you tried all avenues of avoidance. I would also soon after a threat when you can and even now write down exactly what has happened and what has been said and by who to keep good records. Do not rely on just your memory to tell your story, this will also go in the file at your sherrif's office.
Good luck with it and keep us posted.
Not being critical or nothing, but it takes two to tango, so really think about what you did or did not do to piss them off and change your circle of friends. Reason being is because if you CCW it is a really good chance that you may find yourself in a situation where you may have to pull your weapon. Take the others advice and notify the PD.
Call the local PD
and file a peace bond on them, if you have proof of their threats, N they are hanging around your place of employment, they can be arrested and questioned, dial a 911 on them and don't try and be the 'Lone Ranger".
Now your CCW in Mi will not let you use your gun unless you are in imminent danger of serious harm, death, or in fear of your life, if you pull your CCW and try and impress them that you are dangerous and not to be messed with, well that is Brandishing and can loose your CCW.
Besides the way you describe it these are more punks than crypts. So call the PD and go buy some nice 2% and use it if they get nasty.
"don't try and be the 'Lone Ranger"
"if you pull your CCW and try and impress them that you are dangerous and not to be messed with, well that is Brandishing and can loose your CCW"
I am in no way trying to impress anybody with a gun. I know it is a tool of last resort. My question was if multiple people are approaching you with a known hostile intent, what are my rights. Not what are my options for being a bad a** with a gun.
Obviously I am new to having a CCW permit. That is the reason I am here. Not to be judged and called a “lone ranger”.
Al the above are good suggestions. Try to get a restraining order as soon as possible. Heightened awareness and be ready to flee , retreat when possible. you
1. need to show disparity of force
2. that the threat is real
3. there was no other way to defend yourself reasonably
consider getting a less lethal defense too, at least if you try it first you can show use of restraint.
Check your state's statutes regarding the use of force/defense reguarding CCW. Do not rely on what is on the net when it comes to the legalities of using force and what you can and can not do. In Missouri we have to take an 8 hour training course, 4 hours class room and 4 hours on the range as well as qualify with a hand gun and we studied and were sent home with a copy of the statutes when getting a CHL.
Also remember "disparity" clauses. If you're 7'1, and shoot two midgets who are attacking you with fists, don't expect the judge or local DA to let you off.
However, if you're 5'4 and two very large dudes come after you carrying pipes . . . .
I won't say much else because everyone else has given excellent advice. No use repeating it.
If they're known to you, then you have advance knowledge of their intent. That opens up your options. As it's a group of folks, disparity of force is a definite possibility. Good tips from other folks, above.
Originally Posted by jp4240
Think through the scenarios now, 'cause if something goes down it might well happen very, very quickly. Be armed, prepared, adjust your schedules to not have fixed patterns. Keep records of those calls and messages. If overt threats, you can pass copies along to the authorities and hope for their ability to track down the source of the calls. The law doesn't look favorably upon folks that make open threats like this. If you can get a sympathetic person at the PD to care, you might be able to find out exactly who's doing this (ie, from which telephone).
Uncertain whether they know where you live/work. If they do know where you live, and if you're in an apartment, something to consider would be to move somewhere else, quickly on a single day (ie, via a moving van). Getting into another apartment quickly is simple, and your extra crap can be temporarily stored in a u-store place until you get your bearings. A pain, I know, but you're talking about a situation where your lives are at risk. If you can swing it, this might be a simple way to get out of their crosshairs. Depends on your situation, how much they know about you, etc. Such a change would also show overt action on your part to avoid the confrontation. That also changes things in your favor quite a bit, in the eyes of the law.
These folks seem to be laying a trail for their own destruction. So ... document, document, document. 'Cause, if it comes to taking a life in defense of yours, having your ducks in a row can make all the difference.
Whatever else you do, make a paper trail with local LE that you have taken every opportunity to quell this before it comes to someone getting hurt.
Then, if God forbid it does come to 'you or them', you can prove you made le aware of it and gave them the chance to end it.
Jepordy- are you in fear of great bodily harm or death as a results of the attack wether it is real or imagined.
Ability- able to carry out the threats (physical ability to deliver on the thtreats)
Means- do they have a means to carry out the threats (weapons, greater numbers, martial artist.)
If all these are present then deady force applies, remeber 10 16yo can beat in a staight up fight and most any thing can be used as a deadly weapon in the right hands.