Scenario: Unarmed at the ATM - Page 2

Scenario: Unarmed at the ATM

This is a discussion on Scenario: Unarmed at the ATM within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Neither. Both. As they say in the Army \'It all depends upon the terrain\'....

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Thread: Scenario: Unarmed at the ATM

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array KC135's Avatar
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    Neither.

    Both.

    As they say in the Army \'It all depends upon the terrain\'.


  2. #17
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    Originally posted by clubsoda22
    we\'re talking about the above situation, his gun is already out. Would you take your chances with a disarm or drawing your own gun?

    A weapong grab is the best responce to the above situation. Your movemernt is limited and your facing a drawn gun.
    I would come nearer doing what the guy did, punch him. I guess in this scenario that was a disarm, huh? You may be right ;)

  3. #18
    Membership Revoked Array clubsoda22's Avatar
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    well, let\'s also take into account that you are unarmed per this scenario.

    Even if armed i would be tempted in this scenario to do a grab, not a full disarm, but move his gun off to the side where the shot will miss or hit something not vital then draw and shoot point blank from retention. Also if it\'s a revolver you may be able to lock up the cylinder and if it\'s a semi-auto cause a FTE, buying you some time to get you gun out.

  4. #19
    Kahrman
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    Originally posted by clubsoda22
    practiced with airsoft and simunitions. Even though the person (all very experianced shooters, in one case the instructor from a highly respected training outfit) i was training with was expecting the weapon grab, none could react in time. I have experimented with countless people. If you know how to perform the grab, the chances are getting shot are very slim. You can exicute a grab faster than someone can pull the trigger in 99.9% of cases, even when they\'re expecting it. Action always beats reaction.

    It\'s not a last resort either. Consider someone at point blank range, is if faster to disarm him. or to clear your cover garment and draw?

    If your ever in the philly area, bring an airsoft gun and a paintball mask and i\'ll teach you that it doesn\'t take lightning reflexes or being a ninja.
    Young, dumb and full of bravo sierra

  5. #20
    Membership Revoked Array clubsoda22's Avatar
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    shoot me a PM and i\'ll be sure to forward you the e-mail of the instructor from the nationally recognized training organization who taught the course in retention.

    You can shoot him an e-mail to the effect of:

    \"Although you have trained police and military around the world, have trained under some of the most recognized leaders in the shooting community, are a sheriff\'s deputy with advanced SWAT training and a certified instructor in handgun, carbine shotgun and sniper techniques, i\'m calling your ******** on weapon disarms. That\'s all hollywood.\"

  6. #21
    Senior Member Array GoodSamaritan's Avatar
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    Marc, I don\'t know why I ever thought I could reason with you. LOL

    As for disarms, I agree that there are some people good enough to get away with disarms 99% of the time. Of course that is in a controled environment where they arent startled and don\'t have to deal with a BA (body alarm) reaction. Am I calling your beloved high priced instructor a little girly man, or a liar? Nope, I am just trying to temper your response with reason before someone attempts something and gets themselves killed.

  7. #22
    Membership Revoked Array clubsoda22's Avatar
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    I\'m not advocating doing it without proper training, just saying with proper training it\'s not as hard as you all think.

  8. #23
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    I have to agree with Clubsoda...

    I\'ve had the training and practiced it with friends in law enforcement who are also highly skilled martial arts devotees. I am able to move out of the line of fire and sieze control of the weapon quite easily...from that point it\'s a fair fight except I\'m not trained/oriented to fighting fair. Believe me, if I happen to come out on top I\'m gonna beat the living snot out of the BG til somebody drags me off or I get tried just for the deterrent factor.

    It\'s a viable tactic. You also have to take a second to evaluate what\'s in the probable line of fire when you\'re making the decision to go for it. If there\'s a bunch of folks nearby who might get hurt, just give the scumbag the money...a couple of hundred bucks isn\'t worth risking another\'s life. My beloved is trained to drop to one knee on my signal, which places her out of the LOF and also serves to distract the BG\'s attention. In the event of a struggle, you know what she\'s going for when she comes back up and joins the fight. ;)

    The sister who\'s all wet needs to go back for further training and possibly a healthy dose of commitment.

  9. #24
    Membership Revoked Array clubsoda22's Avatar
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    have your SO stand on your weak side. That way they never complicate your draw (Imagine she gets frightened and instinctively puts a death grip on your arm and how disasterous that would be) or end up in the line of fire during a disarm.

    Also, evaluate if you think the guy is gonna shoot you. I know it sounds shitty, but I\'d rather him hit an innocent bystander tham me. My technique is probably the on you learned. Right hand grab (i\'m a lefty), down to the left, step in, reach under and twist. Generally if a shot is fired at all it lands 5 feet behind me and a couple feet to the left. It\'s a great technique because it leaves the gun in your strong hand where you can use it as a club, tap rack bang, toss and grab your own gun or whatnot.

  10. #25
    Senior Member Array KC135's Avatar
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    ........I am not.

    I hope everyone understands that in gun grabs, the gun often fires. While you might be willing to \'take one for the team\', is your SO, child, mom, or anyone else:question:

    Spontaneous reaction can work wonders......if you are ready. Most people are not mentally prepared. The brains option list must be run, and this takes time.

    For an old man like me, this is a \'you go ahead, I\'ll wait here'thing.

  11. #26
    Kahrman
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    Originally posted by clubsoda22
    shoot me a PM and i\'ll be sure to forward you the e-mail of the instructor from the nationally recognized training organization who taught the course in retention.

    You can shoot him an e-mail to the effect of:

    \"Although you have trained police and military around the world, have trained under some of the most recognized leaders in the shooting community, are a sheriff\'s deputy with advanced SWAT training and a certified instructor in handgun, carbine shotgun and sniper techniques, i\'m calling your ******** on weapon disarms. That\'s all hollywood.\"
    I was questioning your ability to disarm in all of these circumstances, not the \"most recognized leaders in the shooting community\". I would rather you showed us that the \"most recognized leaders in the shooting community\" said you were able to disarm him....

  12. #27
    Membership Revoked Array clubsoda22's Avatar
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    yes, in training i was able to disarm him, as was every member of the class. After we threw in retention techniques it was 50/50. I\'m willing to bet most people i come across aren\'t trained in such methods.

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