Security Committee at Work

This is a discussion on Security Committee at Work within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; A couple weeks ago we had a gunman enter our healthcare facility and demand drugs. As it turned out, the gun he had was plastic ...

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Thread: Security Committee at Work

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Security Committee at Work

    A couple weeks ago we had a gunman enter our healthcare facility and demand drugs. As it turned out, the gun he had was plastic and no one was hurt. The man was arrested, but it shook a lot of people up.

    I have since been recruited to be on the Safety and Security committee to critique the event, our policies, and come up with recommendations for actions, systems, processes, equipment, etc. I'm more than glad to be on this committee, because it becomes clear that most people don't have a clue.

    The first item of discussion was "Call a Code Strong". Then I pointed out this code is for combative patient and lots of people will show up. We need a separate code for an armed person and the last thing you want is a ton of targets showing up and freaking the person out. Great way to escalate a situation. We need a unique code for armed response in which limited and specially trained people show up and everyone else secures patients and stays out of the halls. After a long discussion, they seemed to understand the rationale behind this strategy.

    Another item was, "We've got 30 security cameras and we need 30 more costing X dollars." Then I asked, "Who is monitoring these cameras and who will monitor 30 more?" Answer: They're not monitored. So I point out that in essence if something goes down, this won't prevent anything but we'll have really good pictures and video. That's good evidence, but not really preventing anything or making anyone safer. Just helping the investigation after it's over. Still a good idea, but I'm pushing for some type of monitoring.

    We talked about our security company and the fact that our guards are unarmed. After the meeting I had a sidebar with the boss and said, "We need to push our security company to have at least one trained armed guard on the premises. The only thing that can stop an armed attack is an equal and opposing force. We can either have that here or wait for it to show up after 911 is called." It seemed to resonate.

    I also suggested locking down all of the non public entrances with employee badge reading locks and controlling public access points with metal detectors and having the equipment for visitors to check-in (copy of DL and a temporary badge that prints a decal on a laser printer with the visitors name and picture and where they are going).

    In the end, I think we will have a lot of feel-good measures that says "we did something" and hopefully a couple of actual measures that could reduce the liklihood or minimize the impact. This is one time I'm actually glad to be on a committee.
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    Member Array GunsAndViolince's Avatar
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    I agree, committees are one of the many modes of human organization that seem to result in the aggregate IQ being less than the sum of its parts. Someday, somewhere, someone will abolish them and a Golden Age of Humanity will follow....maybe.

    Great to hear you are getting to do some good. As always, you raise some great points here.

    Carry on!

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    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    Only improvement I could think of is that that the "only defense to armed attack is an equal and opposing force" might better be an " overwhelmingly armed and opposing force" But I know your swimming against the tide to start with. Glad someone with some sense is on the commitee. Kudos to you.

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    Member Array ElkSniper's Avatar
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    If it is currently not allowed, how about recommending that they allow employees to conceal carry at work?

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    You should just put up a "no guns allowed" sign.
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    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    How about Code Ralphie?
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    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    I would be remiss if I did not add that in our meeting I pointed out that our "No Weapons Allowed" signs plastered all over the place didn't deter the drug seeker in the least. As for employees carrying, it is a companywide policy and the local facility cannot vary from it. During our sidebar meeting, the boss (who supports 2a, is a gun owner, and knows I carry) said, "When stuff like this happens I'm glad my office is beside of yours." I replied, "Given the company no weapons policy, unless you're going to follow me out to my truck and wait for the person to come out there it's not doing you much good." He said, "Good Point."

    The committee poo pooed all over the idea of armed security. That's why after the meeting I suggested having at least 1.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    A couple weeks ago we had a gunman enter our healthcare facility and demand drugs. As it turned out, the gun he had was plastic and no one was hurt. The man was arrested, but it shook a lot of people up.

    I have since been recruited to be on the Safety and Security committee to critique the event, our policies, and come up with recommendations for actions, systems, processes, equipment, etc. I'm more than glad to be on this committee, because it becomes clear that most people don't have a clue.

    The first item of discussion was "Call a Code Strong". Then I pointed out this code is for combative patient and lots of people will show up. We need a separate code for an armed person and the last thing you want is a ton of targets showing up and freaking the person out. Great way to escalate a situation. We need a unique code for armed response in which limited and specially trained people show up and everyone else secures patients and stays out of the halls. After a long discussion, they seemed to understand the rationale behind this strategy.

    Another item was, "We've got 30 security cameras and we need 30 more costing X dollars." Then I asked, "Who is monitoring these cameras and who will monitor 30 more?" Answer: They're not monitored. So I point out that in essence if something goes down, this won't prevent anything but we'll have really good pictures and video. That's good evidence, but not really preventing anything or making anyone safer. Just helping the investigation after it's over. Still a good idea, but I'm pushing for some type of monitoring.

    We talked about our security company and the fact that our guards are unarmed. After the meeting I had a sidebar with the boss and said, "We need to push our security company to have at least one trained armed guard on the premises. The only thing that can stop an armed attack is an equal and opposing force. We can either have that here or wait for it to show up after 911 is called." It seemed to resonate.

    I also suggested locking down all of the non public entrances with employee badge reading locks and controlling public access points with metal detectors and having the equipment for visitors to check-in (copy of DL and a temporary badge that prints a decal on a laser printer with the visitors name and picture and where they are going).

    In the end, I think we will have a lot of feel-good measures that says "we did something" and hopefully a couple of actual measures that could reduce the liklihood or minimize the impact. This is one time I'm actually glad to be on a committee.
    As long as the existing security cameras are in the right locations and aimed correctly 30 should be fine. As for monitoring them, sounds like a job for your security company, but knowing corporate mentality, they will want someone at the nurses station to do it, as if they don't have enough on their hands.

    The lock down with card swipe for employee's and control of visitors, while a very good idea, is going to be very expensive. The company I work for does that type of work also. Not only is the equipment expensive, but the installation cost will be a killer. There is no bigger pain than doing retro work in a hospital.

    Just curious, do you work for HCA or Bon Secour health systems? My wife worked for both and I know they both have a zero tolerance for employees.
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    I always smile when someone mentions cameras as added security. I want pro-active security, not re-active. With the ever-increasing number of videos showing criminals at work, obviously cameras are much good in the "preventative" department.
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    Member Array beni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    The lock down with card swipe for employee's and control of visitors, while a very good idea, is going to be very expensive. The company I work for does that type of work also. Not only is the equipment expensive, but the installation cost will be a killer. There is no bigger pain than doing retro work in a hospital.
    Not only that, but swipe access is only as effective as the employees following proper procedure. A lot of problems facilities that use swipe access have are "tailgaters". Tailgaters are people who just follow others that have already swiped their badge through the door. Most of the time it is pure laziness that causes it. We had a disgruntled employee impersonate an NCIS agent and tailgate his way into our "secure" facility to confront his former boss, and he was able to get in by tailgating people as they were entering or leaving.

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    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
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    Isn't it much more effective if it's called a "Task Force" ;) ?

    dan

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    Member Array mnmbrewing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beni View Post
    Not only that, but swipe access is only as effective as the employees following proper procedure. A lot of problems facilities that use swipe access have are "tailgaters". Tailgaters are people who just follow others that have already swiped their badge through the door. Most of the time it is pure laziness that causes it. We had a disgruntled employee impersonate an NCIS agent and tailgate his way into our "secure" facility to confront his former boss, and he was able to get in by tailgating people as they were entering or leaving.
    The company I work for has swipe only access to the facility I am in. That access is through a turnstyle so tailgating is not an option unless someone uses the handicapped door or just comes in through the loading dock.

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    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Someone else on the committee brought up the tailgating issue. The bottom line is you can't 100% prevent crazy people from doing crazy things. If you have taken all reasonable measures, then there's not much else you can do.
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    Someone can steal a card - or maybe the crazy person is an employee. Or if you get a retinal scanner (....right) then someone's going to lose an eye..

    The best "committee" size is 3 people.

    Austin
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    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aus71383 View Post
    Someone can steal a card - or maybe the crazy person is an employee. Or if you get a retinal scanner (....right) then someone's going to lose an eye..

    The best "committee" size is 3 people.

    Austin
    Yep. An Engineer to tell you if it is possible. An Accountant to tell you if it is affordable. And a Lawyer to tell you if its legal.
    badger54 likes this.
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