I will agree, no draw at this time.
I will agree, no draw at this time.
Don't see a SINGLE fact within your scenario that would cause me to draw. To the contrary, the fact that I am standing outside an emergency room, where LEOs are known to hang out (good donuts on the graveyard shift, LOL), I'd feel less engaging there than perhaps outside a convenience store or gas station.
What do my eyes see? More info needed.
From "Street Robberies and You....The Basics"...
When to draw
Despite warnings I often see on the Net I have yet to encounter an instance in which a hold up man called the police to report his intended victim threatened to shoot him. Thugs do not want to come into contact with the police. They may already be wanted or realize chances are good they have been identified in a recent robbery. Or what ever. They are not going to call the police if you draw on them.
Supposed two guys are approaching you in a parking lot and do the classic fan out maneuver. You indicate you have a weapon by clearing your gun hand and fanning your jacket at them. They are not discouraged. DRAW!
I am not saying you should pull your gun out, assume a Weaver stance, and scream "That's close enough motherfuckers!" What I am saying is draw your gun and hold it beside your leg as you start to move to cover. I am very fond of telephone poles. Anything will do though. They will see this. They will remember they have to be somewhere else. They will not call the police.
Then you can just put your gun back in the holster and go back to whatever you were doing like nothing happened. Why? Because nothing did happen. A happening is when shots are fired.
Do not hesitate to draw. If you are somewhere you are supposed to be and someone appears who is not supposed to be there like a closed business show him the end of your gun. Could it be Mother Teresa looking for her lost cat behind your closed business? No it is some ************ up to no good. He won't call the police to report he was prowling a location when a guy ran him off
I'm guessing there is more to the story??????????????
For those that think it is OK to draw your weapon to show the other dude that you have one I have this to say: If I asked someone for a cigarette and I saw the take a weapon out and put it behind them because their deciosn making sucks I would call the cops if I did not shoot the guy first...and I would be more justified at this point more so than the guy taking his weapon out without nothing but a "hunch" and can not deal with people in this world.
Yeah, in spite of his claim that "no one saw him draw," I'm going to go with NOT DRAWING in order not to lose my right to draw when 'there really is a wolf!' Not sure what the brandishing laws are like in the state where this occurred but drawing without a threat would probably getchya in a wee bit o' trouble in MI. Particularly if a LEO you hadn't seen suddenly comes out of the same door, as they often do late at night at hospital emergency rooms. It also might be a staff member, coming out to remind you to remain X feet from the building as you smoke.
That's pretty much what I thought--no draw. The other forum is overwhelmingly in favor of the ex-LEO's response due in part to his "vast experience."
I understand that this fellow is an ex-LEO, and I'm sure his action is very common within the LE field. But one of the problems I experienced after retiring from the military was giving up military actions and thoughts that really don't apply to me as a civilian. That was then, this is now, and the rules have changed. I feel the ex-LEO is still operating in the "LEO" mode and that all his actions are justified, at least in his mind. To me, he is no different that anyone else allowed to carry a firearm, he just has a different type of permit. He is not an LEO anymore, and cannot--pr at least should not--do the things that may have been acceptable when "on duty."
OK OldVet, who drew on you when you were trying to bum a smoke? :hand5:
A drink maybe, but not a smoke!
I believe the idea of the Covert Ready Position......is to have the gun drawn and hidden behind the leg....out of sight ....and not seen by the individual.
I would not draw but keep SA up and make sure that I could get to a gun or knife easily.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
Like others, I kept thinking this was a trick question, or something was left out, because the answer seems obvious.
A BG probably won't make a MWAG call... but a regular citizen who just wanted a cigarette will. Also, I'd be surprised if the hospital doesn't have security personnel and cameras watching the area. I don't think it's safe to assume no one will see the gun just because it's held behind his leg.
It does seem that current and retired LEOs get cut a lot more slack by responding LEOs though. That may be why this man felt confident in drawing, despite the apparent lack of provocation or threat. The fellow asking for the cigarette would have the better case for feeling threatened, if he'd seen the gun.
For those who wish to see the original post and the responses, go to this link. If I am wrong, I'll stand corrected.
Glad I was Packing My 442
While my situational awareness would be peaked I would not even put my hand on the holstered weapon. Manage the unknown contact properly with simple pre programed dialog, hold your hand out as walking by demonstrating you can't help them and to stop, make sure he is not approaching, never break stride to the front desk.
If he was a former LEO, I'm not shocked his past experiences would lead him to decide to get is gun out into the covert ready position. This is a ready position that makes a lot of sense in his professional past but has fewer uses as a civilian IMO. At a public place with a decent amount of traffic can lead to someone just happen to be walking behind you and see the firearm. Good luck explaining you were in imminent danger in a court of law when someone just asked for a cigarette.