Draw? No draw? (Edit added again) - Page 5

Draw? No draw? (Edit added again)

This is a discussion on Draw? No draw? (Edit added again) within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by godawgs82 It seems to me that there are many who don't know the exact definition of "brandishing". I thought it was something ...

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Thread: Draw? No draw? (Edit added again)

  1. #61
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godawgs82 View Post
    It seems to me that there are many who don't know the exact definition of "brandishing".
    I thought it was something to the effect of drawing or holding your weapon in a menacing manner.....
    In Michigan the definition of brandishing is displaying a gun in a threatening or intimidating manner. If I pull back my cover shirt to get my wallet out of my pants and someone sees my gun (not going to happen, but in case they did) then I would not be brandishing. If I pulled back my shirt to show the guy asking me for a cigarette that I am armed, then I am brandishing, but as always it comes down to perception, reasonable man opinion which is always a crap shoot.


  2. #62
    Member Array R040607's Avatar
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    Draw? No draw? (Edit added again)

    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    I read the OP in the other forum. The gentleman wasnot asking for folks opinions. I think he felt he did the right thing and doesn't want to here anythig different. His whole mindset about the incident is "cautious paranoia"...I just made that up LOL. He had an incident that happened 40 years previously and sounds like ever since then he doesn't trust anyone.

    His whole rationale behind being suspicious is strange to begin with.


    The guy asking for a cigarette could have been wondering the same thing? What are you doing out here? Since you can't smoke in a hospital it is logical to see someone outside smoking or looking for a smoke. Nothing strange or unusual abut that at all.

    This is the OP's brain trying to find a reason to be suspicious. If the man is looking for a cigarette of course he will ask everyone he thinks that smokes if they have some on them. And chances are that a smoker will have smokes on him.

    He is comparing this to folks knocking on a door asking to use their phone:

    3AM in a hospital parking lot where is where smokers would be is not unusual by any stretch of the imagination. If the dudes wife was in surgery or they were waiting for his wife to deliver a person very well could run out of cigarettes and not want to leave the hospital.


    Glad nothing happened to him 40 years ago. But IMO he is a paranoid son of a gun and his logic is lacking. To draw a weapon with his reasoning is plain out wrong. The threat was in his mind.
    I couldn't agree more.

    What concerns me is all if those that encouraged this type of behavior on the other forum. Think about how damaging this sort of behavior can be! - What if the guy asking for a cigarette went to pull out his lighter in anticipation of "bumming a smoke". Mr. Cautious Paranoia then fully draws on the individual! - All CHL holders would then be under assault from a public now afraid of crazy people.
    tcox4freedom likes this.

  3. #63
    Member Array MrsHB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R040607 View Post
    I couldn't agree more.

    What concerns me is all if those that encouraged this type of behavior on the other forum. Think about how damaging this sort of behavior can be! - What if the guy asking for a cigarette went to pull out his lighter in anticipation of "bumming a smoke". Mr. Cautious Paranoia then fully draws on the individual! - All CHL holders would then be under assault from a public now afraid of crazy people.
    Taking it one step further - what if the guy digs in his pocket for a lighter as he moves toward Mr. Ex-LEO. I assume Ex-LEO will shoot, since he's drawn his gun in anticipation. If he shoots and kills this guy, what will happen if it turns out the other fellow is NOT some thug with a rap sheet and a knife? What if the dead fellow was just a worried husband or father waiting on his loved one to come out of surgery, hoping for a smoke and armed with nothing other than a cigarette lighter? I don't understand why Ex-LEO didn't just duck into the ER, instead of stopping to converse with the suspected BG in the dark.

    Being hyper-cautious will pay off if the other fellow does turn out to be a thug. If he's not, things could get real "George Zimmerman" for the shooter. Meaning, he'll still have his life, but his life will be totally ruined.

    Interesting case.
    tcox4freedom likes this.
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  4. #64
    VIP Member Array SmokinFool's Avatar
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    I by no means mean to offend any LEO's (or Ex) here, but this guy seems to me to be exactly the kind of person we don't want carrying. Does he have a right to do so? Absolutely. However his actions, good intentioned though they may have been, were definitely over the top (IMO). In this case his "instincts" were wrong. You don't draw on an instinct. You draw when there is a real known threat. Now, could he have prepared himself to draw if it became necessary? Of course! And that is what he should have done. He is wrong on this one, and who knows how many others.
    R040607 likes this.

  5. #65
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    Todays Situation

    Hey guys, I am new to this site and stumbled onto this topic. I have a cwp here in SC and carry 100% of the time.

    Today after lunch my helper and i were aproaching a red light when a guy in a small s 10 truck cut us off with no signal ( kind of a, you better stop because here i come). As he pulled in front of us he actually cliped the front bumper. I raised my hands pissed off and shouted ***. He then game the the universal gesture. So i returned the gesture. Just as i did this he locked his brakes up. Being that he had just cut us off i did tap his bumber before stoping. So were both at a stop... I see him open his door. I look down, unbuckle my seat belt and put the car in park. When i look back up he is at the front of my vehicle. i open the door, put a foot out and begin to stand up. Just then he slams my door pinning me against the car. I put one had up to block punches and the other under my jacket and on my gun. he hit like a girl and although i was kinda stuck i didnt feel like my life was in danger. My helper got out and the guy backed up as if he wanted to fight. I told the guy he was absolutly crazy and got back in the car. He jumped in his truck and hauled but. I called police and expained everything.

    Again, I felt like at any time i could have ended his life and that the current situation didnt justify doing so.
    Would you guys have done things differently, besides not flipping him off?

  6. #66
    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    ...I would not have screamed and cursed and waved my hands...I would not have flipped him off...I would not have purposely hit his truck with my vehicle...and I would not have gotten out to face him...the fact that I had the power of his life in my hands would not have even crossed my mind...it was a simple TRAFFIC ACCIDENT, for crying out loud!!! Lose the confrontational attitude and mature enough to control your anger before you rage yourself into a prison cell...and that's as gently as this old man can put it...

    ...oh...welcome to the Forum...lots to be learned here...
    AOK, Jetfuelrm and MrsHB like this.

  7. #67
    New Member Array LDixon's Avatar
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    No, I didnt hit his vehicle purposly. This guy slamed on brakes in anger that i returned his gesture. Its more than a traffic accident when someone slams on the brakes to cause you to hit them out of anger. You say knowing you have the ability to take someones life doesnt cross your mind??? Why not?! You do dont you?! The entire time this idiot is throwing punches I remain calm. he stoped... no need to do anything else. Confrontational attitude? Realy. I guess your the 25mph in a 55.

  8. #68
    New Member Array LDixon's Avatar
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    Im not the one that hit another vehicle driving crazy, slamed on brakes because the driver i just cut off let me know i was an idiot. Then charged and began to hit the guy.

    I think your an idot that things everyone else is always wrong. Nose in the air right.

  9. #69
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDixon View Post
    Im not the one that hit another vehicle driving crazy, slamed on brakes because the driver i just cut off let me know i was an idiot. Then charged and began to hit the guy.

    I think your an idot that things everyone else is always wrong. Nose in the air right.
    Welcome to the forum....no matter how long that might be LOL
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  10. #70
    VIP Member Array Jetfuelrm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDixon View Post
    Hey guys, I am new to this site and stumbled onto this topic. I have a cwp here in SC and carry 100% of the time.

    Today after lunch my helper and i were aproaching a red light when a guy in a small s 10 truck cut us off with no signal ( kind of a, you better stop because here i come). As he pulled in front of us he actually cliped the front bumper. I raised my hands pissed off and shouted ***. He then game the the universal gesture. So i returned the gesture. Just as i did this he locked his brakes up. Being that he had just cut us off i did tap his bumber before stoping. So were both at a stop... I see him open his door. I look down, unbuckle my seat belt and put the car in park. When i look back up he is at the front of my vehicle. i open the door, put a foot out and begin to stand up. Just then he slams my door pinning me against the car. I put one had up to block punches and the other under my jacket and on my gun. he hit like a girl and although i was kinda stuck i didnt feel like my life was in danger. My helper got out and the guy backed up as if he wanted to fight. I told the guy he was absolutly crazy and got back in the car. He jumped in his truck and hauled but. I called police and expained everything.

    Again, I felt like at any time i could have ended his life and that the current situation didnt justify doing so.
    Would you guys have done things differently, besides not flipping him off?
    I wouldn't have flipped him off at all and if he did clip your bumper get the license plate and report it. Whether you like it or not when carrying one has to alter their behavior and not stoop to another persons level by flipping people off, and no the thought doesn't cross my mind that I have an ability to take someones life because its not in my daily thought process. Flipping the person off instead of letting it go was not only being confrontational but was rather immature IMO.
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  11. #71
    New Member Array LDixon's Avatar
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    I do agree that flipping the guy off was crossing a line. I think that my comment on knowing i have the ability to use leathal force is being taken the wrong way. Im never one to start a screaming match or "want" to argue. I do speak my mind most of the time. I dont think that a normal person would cause a fender bender due to there stupid actions and then when (as you typicaly would do) stop and get out of your car attack the other driver. When i say i was thinking about what i could do... all i mean is i was aware of what level this attack was.
    I didnt smile at him and say yea your bad. I think if i had to do it over again i wouldnt have fliped him off. I like to be aware of whats going on, That way if someone smaps and hits me in the face i dont over react and shoot them.

    i see it wrong that i flipped im off. but knowing what i could do????

  12. #72
    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    ...I may be an idiot...you been talkin' to my wife???(but I'm an OLD, grey-haired idiot...and you gotta know a few things to get that way)...

    Quote Originally Posted by LDixon View Post
    Im not the one that hit another vehicle driving crazy, slamed on brakes because the driver i just cut off let me know i was an idiot. Then charged and began to hit the guy.

    I think your an idot that things everyone else is always wrong. Nose in the air right.

  13. #73
    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    Welll first while maybe raising your arms could be a startled reaction and ill go along with that one. Uncaging your own bird in response to his bird was asking to escalate the thing. I dont think from what you say you could have avoided bumping him when he slammed on his brakes however.

    While the first part could obviously have been done better the latter part was a disaster except for the fact you didnt shoot the guy.
    Hes getting out of his car and you take your eyes off him to unbuckle a seat belt? Next time you see him hes at the front of your car? He could just have easily have had a gun and blown your head off while you were fiddling with a seat belt.

    Then you try to get out and the guy pins by your own door and punched. Not withstanding the whole thing could have been avoided probably. if this guy had been like some road rage incidents you were way behind the curve from beginning to end.

    Not being hard on you or anything but instead of feeling you could have ended his life at anytime you should be thanking your lucky stars this guy wasnt an armed idiot like the one that shot the teens in Fla and that your still alive. This guy could have offed you at any point from leaving his car right up to slamming your own car door on you. Just a little food for thought
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  14. #74
    New Member Array LDixon's Avatar
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    I guess your right, theres old and theres bold. but no old bold

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDixon View Post
    Hey guys, I am new to this site and stumbled onto this topic. I have a cwp here in SC and carry 100% of the time.

    Today after lunch my helper and i were aproaching a red light when a guy in a small s 10 truck cut us off with no signal ( kind of a, you better stop because here i come). As he pulled in front of us he actually cliped the front bumper. I raised my hands pissed off and shouted ***. He then game the the universal gesture. So i returned the gesture. Just as i did this he locked his brakes up. Being that he had just cut us off i did tap his bumber before stoping. So were both at a stop... I see him open his door. I look down, unbuckle my seat belt and put the car in park. When i look back up he is at the front of my vehicle. i open the door, put a foot out and begin to stand up. Just then he slams my door pinning me against the car. I put one had up to block punches and the other under my jacket and on my gun. he hit like a girl and although i was kinda stuck i didnt feel like my life was in danger. My helper got out and the guy backed up as if he wanted to fight. I told the guy he was absolutly crazy and got back in the car. He jumped in his truck and hauled but. I called police and expained everything.

    Again, I felt like at any time i could have ended his life and that the current situation didnt justify doing so.
    Would you guys have done things differently, besides not flipping him off?
    Great first post, to which I really have nothing to add. Welcome to the board.
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
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