Draw? No draw? (Edit added again)

This is a discussion on Draw? No draw? (Edit added again) within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; this is true. to be honest saw no reason for a fist fight, it was a fender bender to me. i was actually expecting a ...

Page 6 of 8 FirstFirst ... 2345678 LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 115
Like Tree35Likes

Thread: Draw? No draw? (Edit added again)

  1. #76
    New Member Array LDixon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    6
    this is true. to be honest saw no reason for a fist fight, it was a fender bender to me. i was actually expecting a man im sorry im an idot. I guess i am lucky

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #77
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    S. Florida, north of the Miami mess, south of the Mouse trap
    Posts
    15,980
    Quote Originally Posted by LDixon View Post
    Hey guys, I am new to this site and stumbled onto this topic. I have a cwp here in SC and carry 100% of the time.

    Today after lunch my helper and i were aproaching a red light when a guy in a small s 10 truck cut us off with no signal ( kind of a, you better stop because here i come). As he pulled in front of us he actually cliped the front bumper. I raised my hands pissed off and shouted ***. He then game the the universal gesture. So i returned the gesture. Just as i did this he locked his brakes up. Being that he had just cut us off i did tap his bumber before stoping. So were both at a stop... I see him open his door. I look down, unbuckle my seat belt and put the car in park. When i look back up he is at the front of my vehicle. i open the door, put a foot out and begin to stand up. Just then he slams my door pinning me against the car. I put one had up to block punches and the other under my jacket and on my gun. he hit like a girl and although i was kinda stuck i didnt feel like my life was in danger. My helper got out and the guy backed up as if he wanted to fight. I told the guy he was absolutly crazy and got back in the car. He jumped in his truck and hauled but. I called police and expained everything.

    Again, I felt like at any time i could have ended his life and that the current situation didnt justify doing so.
    Would you guys have done things differently, besides not flipping him off?
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  4. #78
    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    5,736
    Quote Originally Posted by LDixon View Post
    this is true. to be honest saw no reason for a fist fight, it was a fender bender to me. i was actually expecting a man im sorry im an idot. I guess i am lucky
    You arent an idiot. You are simply someone that did what all of us have done somewhere along the line and let your emotions get away with you. Ive done it, I doubt there are few here that havent at some point or another.
    And I didnt point out what I did to make you feel stupid. There are a lot of folks carrying a weapon, some legally some not legally. What may seem like a fender bender bird flipping little pain in the butt in your day, the other guy might easily have been a fruitcake with a gun in a rage intent at that moment on killing you over nothing.
    It happens alot. I only pointed it out so that perhaps you might learn from this that what may seem a fender bender etc etc can turn into having your lights put out permenantly and for no good reason at all. My post was just some food for thought for the future. Perhaps being a bit more watchful and not giving someone an edge you cant possibly overcome if they want to take advantage of it. Be safe.
    " It is sad governments are chief'ed by the double tongues." quote Ten Bears Movie Outlaw Josie Wales

  5. #79
    Member Array GunsAndViolince's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    332
    On a topic a little closer to the original thread then...

    Quote Originally Posted by TedBeau View Post
    In Michigan the definition of brandishing is displaying a gun in a threatening or intimidating manner. If I pull back my cover shirt to get my wallet out of my pants and someone sees my gun (not going to happen, but in case they did) then I would not be brandishing. If I pulled back my shirt to show the guy asking me for a cigarette that I am armed, then I am brandishing, but as always it comes down to perception, reasonable man opinion which is always a crap shoot.
    I agree with your understanding of brandishing 100%, but I'm not sure it's ever really defined anywhere, which makes your point about the 'reasonable man' an important one. In fact, it's interesting to note that in the most current version of the Tri-fold I have from MI Open Carry it mentions Granholm's opinion (when she was AG) that carrying a pistol in a holster is not brandishing. So, if we needed an AG opinion that it's not brandishing if it's in the holster, that seems to imply that lots of other things are, in the eyes of the law. Hopefully, now that the Birmingham business is over, there will be more awareness about this and fewer misunderstandings.

    So, while drawing and holding it behind your leg may or may not really be brandishing, it could potentially cause enough trouble that I still wouldn't do it in the OPs scenario. But I realize the legal differences in other states might make it less of a big deal.

  6. #80
    Senior Member Array Weeg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    529
    Wow...


    Tons of 2d guessing this man.


    I respect retired Police Officers. Many have been through years of leaving the house daily to deploy to a combat zone, then return home.

    This fella has obviously seen soem action to hav ehis radar tuned like that, and bunch of commandos here (most I'm guessing have never been shot at) in here are throwing this guy under the Bus.


    None of us were there.


    Cheers,

    R

  7. #81
    AOK
    AOK is online now
    Member Array AOK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    382
    Quote Originally Posted by Weeg View Post
    Wow...


    Tons of 2d guessing this man.


    I respect retired Police Officers. Many have been through years of leaving the house daily to deploy to a combat zone, then return home.

    This fella has obviously seen soem action to hav ehis radar tuned like that, and bunch of commandos here (most I'm guessing have never been shot at) in here are throwing this guy under the Bus.


    None of us were there.


    Cheers,

    R
    I'm a little confused here. So just because someone has past experience in certain areas means their decision making skills in infallible? Based on the little bit we know he cleared his holster because someone asked him a question, from a reasonable distance, he didn't encroach, he wasn't badgered verbally, the unknown contact wasn't hiding something in his hands, and I could keep going.

    Commando? Hardly. Never been shot at (as many LEO's haven't as well in their careers) but your logic is lacking. If anything the ex office was playing commando when he is no longer a LEO, but now an average everyday citizen with a commendable background. Now it's a whole new ballgame.

    I was not there but if the OP story is how the entire exchange went down the guy made a mistake and had a lack in judgement period.

  8. #82
    New Member Array Brikhead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    The Peoples Republic of Maryland
    Posts
    7

    Re: Draw? No draw? (Edit added again)

    As just about any cop knows, that simple request for a cig, or the time, is a frequent precursor to a robbery. Not everytime, obviously, but those approaches are employed in an effort to get people to let their guard down, and for the BG to gauge the intended victims alertness. So, the Ops experience definitely plays into it. I'm not saying that drawing was right but if no one else saw it, just the simple boost in projected confidence may have dissuaded the BG, if he had been intent on acting. If he wasn't a BG then he, by the account we were given, was left unaware.

    Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

  9. #83
    New Member Array Brikhead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    The Peoples Republic of Maryland
    Posts
    7

    Re: Draw? No draw? (Edit added again)

    Also, I don't think that I have ever seen a dimly lit ER, So I wonder.

    Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

  10. #84
    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    4,575
    ...I don't see a cop with 30 years of experience considering easing his weapon out of the holster to have the edge in a "hairs up" situation even noteworthy enough to mention...much less on a public forum...this seems like a "scenario" that someone thought up...a seasoned cop doesn't need to have his actions validated by the members of a gun forum...

  11. #85
    TVJ
    TVJ is offline
    Senior Member Array TVJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Tejas
    Posts
    668
    In TX, hospitals are posted 30.06 gun free.

    So I have no gun. I do carry either a 5.5" fixed or folder which would stay right in my pocket or appendix carry for the fixed, tactically in the same AIWB where I carry my glock.

    I would say "No" and walk in without a second thought. If my spidey sense tingled, most hospitals have a Sheriff deputy inside and I share my thoughts.

    Drawing a knife or gun, as the scenario is posted by OldVet, is clear brandishing. The guy isn't even closing distance, which if he said the same stuff, STILL wouldnt legally justify drawing anything.

    Only if you started setting tripwires...yelling back off for example....and he was still using force of motion to close distance...would I start to think about creating a little more space, saying it again forcefully, and putting my hand on a holstered (fixed) or clipped (folder) tool...

    Only then could I show the perp demonstrated legal deliberate indifference. Only then did I begin to take tactical measures. Watch hands.....

    As written, the guy likely has a family member in emergency and he smokes to reduce his stress. With my wife in the hospital, odds favor we have way more in common than him "assaulting" me.

    I would favor drawing down with compassion.
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
    - Frederic Bastiat

  12. #86
    VIP Member Array xXxplosive's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,687
    True..............but I have seen a few times city police utilize the Covert Ready Position during a confrontation.....yup, more than once.

  13. #87
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    TX/NH
    Posts
    5,822
    I think this retired officer is a reason to get rid of LEOSA LOL
    And for the gentleman that second we are throwing him under the bus I have this to say: This forum is to give opinions on this mans actions. By his own words there was not ONE indication the guy was up to no good. He takes his weapon out because he felt something was not right. The dude IMO is a nervous Nelly that can not forget about the incident he had 40 years ago.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  14. #88
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    S. Florida, north of the Miami mess, south of the Mouse trap
    Posts
    15,980
    Leos have the authority and freedom to many things that do not extend to the civilian world, not should they. I don't arrest criminals, I don't serve warrents, etc. Common LEO practices that apply to LEOs doing these things do not apply to me walking around in public.

    I am not, and never will be an LEO, and I do not know what the LEOSA covers other than allowing former LEO carrying. But do the standard practices of an active LEO carry over to those under LEOSA? I don't think "Once a cop, always a cop" applies across the board. I do know there are strcit policies (or guidelines if one prefers) for the LEOs I worked with for drawing a firearm. drawing a hadgun, even if unseen, because someone in a dimly lit area asked for a smoke, did not fall under those guidelines.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  15. #89
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    S. Florida, north of the Miami mess, south of the Mouse trap
    Posts
    15,980
    Quote Originally Posted by Brikhead View Post
    Also, I don't think that I have ever seen a dimly lit ER, So I wonder.

    Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2
    He was entering the ER, not in it. The man was in the dim light.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  16. #90
    VIP Member Array xXxplosive's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,687
    So then if that's the case, why do so many sign up for tactical pistol courses taught mostly by LE or Mil ex's..........I'm sure some of this is being explained in these classes to the general public. An edge is an edge as i see it.......and In a situation, I want an edge.
    Secret Spuk likes this.

Page 6 of 8 FirstFirst ... 2345678 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

powered by mybb answer my health question
,

powered by mybb area codes

,
powered by mybb birmingham personal injury lawyer
,
powered by mybb columbia
,
powered by mybb definition of legal system
,

powered by mybb drawing head

,
powered by mybb gas station
,

powered by mybb georgia birth injury lawyer

,
powered by mybb injury law
,
powered by mybb injury lawyer ohio
,

powered by mybb michigan personal injury lawyer

,

powered by mybb ohio personal injury attorneys

Click on a term to search for related topics.