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Draw? No draw? (Edit added again)

9K views 114 replies 50 participants last post by  Snub44 
#1 · (Edited)
I'm in a bit of a discussion on another forum I visit on occasion, and I'd like to get a few opinions from folks here. Here's the scenario:

You're [entering] the emergency room late at night, where your ill spouse has been transported. You see "a dark figure" 20 feet away in the dim light who asks for a cigarette. That's all that has occured.

A simple question. Please, no IFs, BUTs' etc. You, emergency room, late at night, someone in the dim light asks for a Cig. Is that reason to actually draw a weapon?


[Jeopardy tune time now]


Thought about it long enough? I'll add in some tidbits of further info and now see if you opinion changes.

The individual in question is a 60-year-old retired, (apparently, not confirmed) disabled (don't know of any retired LEOs who aren't to some extent) LEO with 30 years of "experience" who pulled his 442 out and placed it behind his leg, an "old LEO trick" from his early days. No one saw him draw his gun (His claim). No one implies the guy asking for the Cig approached you.

Do you still think it was proper/improper for him to draw his firearm, even if unobserved, given this additional data? My opinion later.

EDIT: Slight edits to make this as close to his OP without pasting. I'd post what the OP (the LEO) said in its entirely but don't want to infringe on any copyright rules. There really isn't any other conditions to his post, just some "after the fact" additions that don't add anything to what I've set forth.

Re-edit: See post #29 for a link to the OP's thread. If you feel I've omitted some important facts, please say so.
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Based strictly on what you provided, it was premature to draw. A few additional facts could cause a different answer, though.
 
#3 ·
Nope I would not have felt threatened in that situation and would not have drawn
 
#4 ·
With info given, no need for draw
 
#17 ·
I know smoking is bad for your health, but wow! No draw...
LMAO!

Don't see a SINGLE fact within your scenario that would cause me to draw. To the contrary, the fact that I am standing outside an emergency room, where LEOs are known to hang out (good donuts on the graveyard shift, LOL), I'd feel less engaging there than perhaps outside a convenience store or gas station.
 
#9 ·
I'm even going to say its unresponsible to draw, suppose the guy in need of a cig saw the draw and drew faster and shot him?
 
#13 ·
No draw, same as it was for me at a gas station late one light last week.Guy comes out of bushes while Im walking back to my car and says "hey big man"..... and cant finish his sentence as I ignore and get back into my car. He did not proceed toward my car when I didnt respond to him....No draw
 
#15 ·
I had to read this several times to see if it was a trick question. I don't even see where there is a need for discussion on this "scenario". Of course you would not draw your weapon. And to make it even dumber to draw (IMO) is the facts given later that the guy is a retired LEO. I can see some wimpy wuss nervous Nelly doing it...but a retired LEO?

EDIT: What is the discusion points in the other forum? What are the reasons folks are giving that saying drawing is OK?
 
#19 ·
From "Street Robberies and You....The Basics"...


When to draw

Despite warnings I often see on the Net I have yet to encounter an instance in which a hold up man called the police to report his intended victim threatened to shoot him. Thugs do not want to come into contact with the police. They may already be wanted or realize chances are good they have been identified in a recent robbery. Or what ever. They are not going to call the police if you draw on them.



Supposed two guys are approaching you in a parking lot and do the classic fan out maneuver. You indicate you have a weapon by clearing your gun hand and fanning your jacket at them. They are not discouraged. DRAW!

I am not saying you should pull your gun out, assume a Weaver stance, and scream "That's close enough motherfuckers!" What I am saying is draw your gun and hold it beside your leg as you start to move to cover. I am very fond of telephone poles. Anything will do though. They will see this. They will remember they have to be somewhere else. They will not call the police.

Then you can just put your gun back in the holster and go back to whatever you were doing like nothing happened. Why? Because nothing did happen. A happening is when shots are fired.

Do not hesitate to draw. If you are somewhere you are supposed to be and someone appears who is not supposed to be there like a closed business show him the end of your gun. Could it be Mother Teresa looking for her lost cat behind your closed business? No it is some ************ up to no good. He won't call the police to report he was prowling a location when a guy ran him off
 
#20 ·
I'm guessing there is more to the story??????????????
 
#21 ·
For those that think it is OK to draw your weapon to show the other dude that you have one I have this to say: If I asked someone for a cigarette and I saw the take a weapon out and put it behind them because their deciosn making sucks I would call the cops if I did not shoot the guy first...and I would be more justified at this point more so than the guy taking his weapon out without nothing but a "hunch" and can not deal with people in this world.
 
#22 ·
Yeah, in spite of his claim that "no one saw him draw," I'm going to go with NOT DRAWING in order not to lose my right to draw when 'there really is a wolf!' Not sure what the brandishing laws are like in the state where this occurred but drawing without a threat would probably getchya in a wee bit o' trouble in MI. Particularly if a LEO you hadn't seen suddenly comes out of the same door, as they often do late at night at hospital emergency rooms. It also might be a staff member, coming out to remind you to remain X feet from the building as you smoke.
 
#23 ·
That's pretty much what I thought--no draw. The other forum is overwhelmingly in favor of the ex-LEO's response due in part to his "vast experience."

I understand that this fellow is an ex-LEO, and I'm sure his action is very common within the LE field. But one of the problems I experienced after retiring from the military was giving up military actions and thoughts that really don't apply to me as a civilian. That was then, this is now, and the rules have changed. I feel the ex-LEO is still operating in the "LEO" mode and that all his actions are justified, at least in his mind. To me, he is no different that anyone else allowed to carry a firearm, he just has a different type of permit. He is not an LEO anymore, and cannot--pr at least should not--do the things that may have been acceptable when "on duty."
 
#25 ·
A drink maybe, but not a smoke!
 
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