Opinion: Was this clerk being a cowboy when he took action?

This is a discussion on Opinion: Was this clerk being a cowboy when he took action? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by suntzu Apples and oranges.....having a photographer without body armor or helmet taking pics like he was was stupid. Plain and simple. The ...

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Thread: Opinion: Was this clerk being a cowboy when he took action?

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Apples and oranges.....having a photographer without body armor or helmet taking pics like he was was stupid. Plain and simple. The students could get the same effect other ways without possible endangering the dude.

    The guy in the video acted quickly and seemed like he knew what he was doing. And I bet he was able to do that without having to attend some stupid training stunt.
    Ahhhh...always enjoy YOUR opinions...funny how everyone has one. The "picture taking" was something that you would just have to be there to appreciate. Easy to criticize when not knowing all the facts. It really wasn't a "stupid training stunt", it was strictly a picture session, to exhibit the skills of the students, while actually training, and the confidence that had been built between the instructors and the students...After the fact, the students DID realize the intense focus they had developed on the front sight/target.

    Stay safe Sir.
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array ExaltedOne's Avatar
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    What is this training stunt that you guys are referring to?

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by First Sgt View Post
    Ahhhh...always enjoy YOUR opinions...funny how everyone has one. The "picture taking" was something that you would just have to be there to appreciate. Easy to criticize when not knowing all the facts. It really wasn't a "stupid training stunt", it was strictly a picture session, to exhibit the skills of the students, while actually training, and the confidence that had been built between the instructors and the students...After the fact, the students DID realize the intense focus they had developed on the front sight/target.

    Stay safe Sir.
    I don't want to point out how wrong you are again sir LOL (j/K) But I was answereing your question. And like a poster said earlier "did this man do the same training?"

    And as a Senior NCO in the AF retired you of all people know that a one time demonstration of something is not "training". Training is when you are taught a task, preacticed it, demonstrated proficiency in it, and tested to a repeatable measrable standard.

    If I got a soldier and through him out of an airplane without any training and he landed (which he would eventually LOL), it does not make him "trained" for airborne ops. It just lets him know what it feels like.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    I don't want to point out how wrong you are again sir LOL (j/K) But I was answereing your question. And like a poster said earlier "did this man do the same training?"

    And as a Senior NCO in the AF retired you of all people know that a one time demonstration of something is not "training". Training is when you are taught a task, preacticed it, demonstrated proficiency in it, and tested to a repeatable measrable standard.
    If I got a soldier and through him out of an airplane without any training and he landed (which he would eventually LOL), it does not make him "trained" for airborne ops. It just lets him know what it feels like.
    LOL..Had to chuckle at the soldier being thrown outa the plane...We were always taught NOT to exit a perfectly good aircraft unless thrown out...LOL

    Anyway...we could go on and on concerning the "photographer" situation, and it has been hashed out many times previously on this and other forums. This particular course (fighting pistol) was approx 18-20 hours of pretty intense training. The majority of those hours were on a "hot range". Approx 900-1000 rounds, lots of repetition and correction when needed. Emphasis on Safety was stressed from hour one before any weapons went hot.

    The point I'm trying to make is that by the time the photographer took the pictures in reference, all students had measurably met YOUR statement in bold above. This does NOT take into consideration any previous experience in either military training, LE training, or other defensive pistol training that might have been experienced prior to this course. The notion that only "novice" gun handlers were on line isn't accurate nor correct.

    Anyway, as always, I enjoy the reparte...Take care and be safe Sir!
    suntzu likes this.
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

  6. #20
    Distinguished Member Array Exacto's Avatar
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    Is the baby deaf now? How do you know that BG would not have killed everyone in the store ,including the baby. It has happened many times. We were not there. The clerk had to make that call. Hindsight is always 20/20.
    gunfan likes this.
    Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunder bolt...... Sun Tzu.

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  7. #21
    Senior Member Array Weeg's Avatar
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    Good Guy TOOK ACTION, which scares most warbling liberals...



    .
    gunfan and Bark'n like this.

  8. #22
    Member Array Buzz64's Avatar
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    It has been said, gun control means hitting your target.3 shots fired, 3 rounds in bg.looks like good gun control.
    gunfan and FloridaBiker like this.

  9. #23
    Member Array gunfan's Avatar
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    I wish that the GG had killed the BG. It would have simplified things. Dead bad guys don't consume food, oxygen or take up prison space. This worthless piece of garbage should be pushing up daisies.

    Scott

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  11. #25
    Member Array MangoTangoJK's Avatar
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    Excellent tactics by the GG in my opinion. He saw the threat. He maintained a level head. He used "helping the other clerk with the money" as an excuse to gain a better angle. He used the other clerk so that he could draw his firearm and then he pushed her away from the threat and further behind the counter. He also moved further away from the infant/mother and opened fire to eliminate the threat. Very good tactics and a very good use of situational awareness. I hope I never encounter a situation like this, but if it happens, I hope I have the training necessary to react just as this guy did.

  12. #26
    Member Array TrevX's Avatar
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    good shot imo

  13. #27
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    The CCW rules are you have a right to defend against death and serious harm. A BG with a gun drawn constitutes someone intending to kill or do serious harm (and if not, that is the BG's mistake). I assume the BG had a gun drawn, else I might have another opinion.

    Maybe instead of saying this guy could have shot a mother and her baby, we could say the BG tried to use a mother and her baby as a shield and the hero responded well. I think the only people crying about the mother and baby being endangered are those who have no experience with firearms and have no concept of how such a situation *should* look.

    I would have done the same.

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exacto View Post
    Is the baby deaf now? How do you know that BG would not have killed everyone in the store ,including the baby. It has happened many times. We were not there. The clerk had to make that call. Hindsight is always 20/20.
    I don't rely on the benevolence of criminals whether they decide to kill me or not. If there is opportunity, I will take it.

    Is the baby deaf? Don't know. But I'm pretty sure she's about 7-8 years old now, which she wouldn't have been if the criminal killed them all.
    Harryball likes this.
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  16. #30
    VIP Member Array sixgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billstaf View Post
    Clerk: Nice, well controlled two-handed grip. Placed his shots well. The guy knows what he is doing.

    Bad Guy: Wrong place, wrong time, wrong profession.
    Nuff said here with this post.

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