Can you draw so the BGs will possibly "Back Off?"

This is a discussion on Can you draw so the BGs will possibly "Back Off?" within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; ...somehow I doubt you would have needed the gun...thanks for your service!!! Those punks almost had an epiphany......

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Thread: Can you draw so the BGs will possibly "Back Off?"

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    ...somehow I doubt you would have needed the gun...thanks for your service!!! Those punks almost had an epiphany...

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  3. #47
    New Member Array davidnssbm's Avatar
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    With regards to my original post, there is a FAQ in the WA STATE GUN RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES book by DAVE WORKMAN that asks "what if I only display a firearm and do not fire a shot? Should I still call the police?"

    The author basically says to do so, so that the BG does not report a "nut with a gun" before you report the truth. But he does not say anything about this judgement. But since he says to call the cops, I assume its because it was entirely legal? Because the original question asks about "displaying" your firearm, not "drawing", and not "brandishing", which after this thread I've begun to realize has a negativee connotation, whether an accurate description or not.

    Side note: Washington is legally an open carry state, but is NOT protected by the law in stone. Basically as long as you open carry in a manner and area that does not "warrant alarm in a reasonable person" you're fine.

  4. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldMick View Post
    I agree.

    And just to add something for consideration:

    Remember the guy who tried to quiet a party next door and ended up shooting and killing a neighbor? He kept stating, on a video, " I am standing my ground here" and "my life is in danger" hoping to demonstrate he was lawful in his actions because of the Texas SYG law. He's doing 40 years.

    Raul Rodriguez, 47, faced a minimum of five years and a maximum of life in prison

    My point is that what I consider "fear for my life" better be something I can explain to a jury and they agree with my assessment of the situation.

    ETA - I'd still rather be in the courtroom than taking that long dirtsleep, but the "fear for my life" thing isn't something I take lightly.
    I've posted many times here that just saying "I was in fear of my life" is not an automatic get out of jail free card.

    While everyone has their own personal threshold of what they fear in their minds as being life threatening, it must pass the "reasonable man" smell test.

    Which means, would a reasonable man, put in the exact same circumstance also believe that their life was in jeopardy.

    As the guy in Texas who is currently doing 40 years found out, you can say "I was in fear of my life" all day long, but apparently no one else on the jury felt it was a legitimate claim.
    Hopyard and Snub44 like this.
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  5. #49
    Member Array Illusive Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    First off, welcome to the forum.

    Now for your question. You never draw, unless you feel your life is in danger or serious bodily harm is imminent. If you draw your weapon, you better be prepared to use it. It isn't made for intimidation, it's made to save your life. if the BG decides to break off the attack and your not forced to fire, that's fine, but never bet on that being the case.
    +1 on this. We just discussed this at the range yesterday with a couple of police officers.
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    A man, without force, is without the essential dignity of humanity. Human nature is so constituted, that it cannot honor a helpless man, although it can pity him; and even this it cannot do long, if the signs of power do not arise.

  6. #50
    Member Array SLS075's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weeg View Post
    If you draw for gun...whether you fire or not, CALL THE POLICE. This way a case # is assigned.


    If you don't call, you can be sure the BG will, and whoever calls first is the victim.
    Ditto. Given the exact same advice in my CC class.

  7. #51
    Distinguished Member Array chuckusaret's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Are you saying that if you draw your gun and the bad guy immediately puts his arms above his head and screams, "Don't shoot! Don't Shoot!" you're going to go ahead and shoot him?
    If the bad guy has me in his sights, I don't believe I would give him the time to shoot me or throw down his weapon. I also don't believe anyone would wait for him to do so and stand the chance of being shot. I do believe in the old saying; "He who hesitates is lost" and in this case, wounded or dead. Do you have an incident where this happened?

  8. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckusaret View Post
    If the bad guy has me in his sights, I don't believe I would give him the time to shoot me or throw down his weapon. I also don't believe anyone would wait for him to do so and stand the chance of being shot. I do believe in the old saying; "He who hesitates is lost" and in this case, wounded or dead. Do you have an incident where this happened?
    I don't need to look up a case for you. I won't be the one shooting a guy who is trying to surrender. Not if I can help it.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  9. #53
    Distinguished Member Array dben002's Avatar
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    In NC drawing a weapon for the purpose of intimidation "can" get you into some serious trouble....If I need to draw my weapon, I am in a position of having to fire it.
    There are two types of people who carry concealed weapons...Responsible ones and Irresponsible ones...which are you...

  10. #54
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dben002 View Post
    In NC drawing a weapon for the purpose of intimidation "can" get you into some serious trouble....If I need to draw my weapon, I am in a position of having to fire it.
    Once again I must comment. What do you consider "intimidation"?. If I am walking away or trying to evade a group or a person who raises the situational awareness hairs on my back to the point of approaching the presumption of imminent danger, and I transfer my firearm from my holster to my pocket or my hand at my side or under my clothes (say a 380 in my hand), I do not find that to be intimidation or brandishing; the BG is not next to me--I am trying to stay away from him and am moving my firearm as I evade the confrontation. I am not going to wait for a BG to be pointing his firearm at me before I try getting it out of my holster under my clothes so I can defend myself--I will be dead by then.

  11. #55
    Member Array nmbr5ml's Avatar
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    I would advocate telling the approaching person(s) to back off, in a loud and authoritative tone, instead of trying to communicate this by reaching for a gun. If you make it clear you are alarmed, move off line, order someone to stop approaching and they then continue and/or do something to escalate, you have likely reached the threshold of "reasonableness" that Bark'n referenced above. I'm not saying you should shoot someone at that point, rather I'm saying you can more likely articulate how a reasonable person would be in fear for his life at that point.

    The key here, and always, is to react early and use distance to your advantage. If you're a passive, mousy person who is uncomfortable speaking to strangers, you look like food to the hungry wolf. Fixing that is probably more important than your marksmanship. You have to spot trouble early and when you do... DO SOMETHING! Convey confidence and aggression and let people know they have aroused your suspicions. Ask them what they want or just tell them to stop.

    Yes guns are a last resort and we should do everything we can to avoid having to use them. Doing everything you can is not doing nothing, letting things happen around you then trying to get out of it by pulling a gun.
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  12. #56
    Senior Member Array Weeg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLS075 View Post
    Ditto. Given the exact same advice in my CC class.


    Thanks!


    I teach CC and other courses out this way.

  13. #57
    AOK
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weeg View Post
    If you draw for gun...whether you fire or not, CALL THE POLICE. This way a case # is assigned.


    If you don't call, you can be sure the BG will, and whoever calls first is the victim.
    This is very sound advise.

    Somewhat recently in January 2012 a gentlemen on another message board I frequent was threatened by guy who was 15 years younger and had 100 lbs on the gentlemen. The larger gentlemen stated he was a cage fighter and he was going to kick his butt. The older gentlemen pulled out his firearm and pointed it at the cagefigher. The cage fighter backed down and the gun owner and wife got in the car and left the scene. He went home, had a few drinks to calm his nerves and a few hours later he hears a knock at the door. Sure enough the cage fighter got his licence plate number and called the police.

    He ended up going to court and was found guilt of several counts in June 2012. Last month he was sentenced to 2+ years. While he made other mistakes not calling the police was his first major mistake.

  14. #58
    Senior Member Array Weeg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOK View Post
    This is very sound advise.

    Somewhat recently in January 2012 a gentlemen on another message board I frequent was threatened by guy who was 15 years younger and had 100 lbs on the gentlemen. The larger gentlemen stated he was a cage fighter and he was going to kick his butt. The older gentlemen pulled out his firearm and pointed it at the cagefigher. The cage fighter backed down and the gun owner and wife got in the car and left the scene. He went home, had a few drinks to calm his nerves and a few hours later he hears a knock at the door. Sure enough the cage fighter got his licence plate number and called the police.

    He ended up going to court and was found guilt of several counts in June 2012. Last month he was sentenced to 2+ years. While he made other mistakes not calling the police was his first major mistake.


    Holy Smokes...


    Guess the 'cage fighter' wasn't so tough after all.


    Sad

  15. #59
    Member Array CZRex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnsc View Post
    A good friend of mine,and his wife were xmas shopping a couple of yrs ago at a mall.He said he parks his truck farther out,to keep it from getting hit by a car door,or scratched.Anyway,they were putting their stuff in,and he said 2 males,were walking their way.He looked around, and he saw no reason,for them to be walking towards them.He said they gave him a bad feeling.As they got closer,he acted like he was looking at something on the bottom of his shirt.He raised it high enough,so they could see his gun.They stopped and were talking to each other,and went the other way.Maybe that stopped a robbery,maybe not.He said they did call cops,just to let them know.
    I had a similar experience. A couple yrs ago I was at a gas station just off Phoenix Blvd/Hwy 314 south of ATL (Riverdale area, 'nuff said) and while pumping gas, a lowlife type circled the pumps on foot, each time around getting a little closer. I took off my coat and positioned myself with arms crossed so that my .45 would be clearly visible. He saw it, his eyes bugged out and so did he. Was he genuinely up to no good? We'll never know, but if he was, he wisely changed his mind.

  16. #60
    Member Array dwyermw's Avatar
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    +1 for kelcarry comments: Let's see if I can succinctly create a simplified version:
    1. Two individuals approach my general area in a situation where it does not appear that they need to be there. They come within a personal area.
    2. I verbally command and make a move to my gun side which is evident to the individuals. They continue to come toward me.
    3. I now grip my firearm and pull from my holster to low ready, continuing to verbally command the aggressors.
    4. With two individuals, continuing to come to me, clearly risking their lives knowing I am prepared to shoot, if they now enter an attack position, I go ugly early and shoot. Everyone reading this blog needs to come to grips with what steps they will take. "Brandishing" is part of the defense process and while aggravated assault witha firmearm is , in most states, a non negoitiable, 3 year sentence, i will take my chances at that point in court. A random attack on someone like myself, at the sporting event, or mall whre I am at, is going to be perpetrated by someone who has a long history of issues.

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