Can you draw so the BGs will possibly "Back Off?"

Can you draw so the BGs will possibly "Back Off?"

This is a discussion on Can you draw so the BGs will possibly "Back Off?" within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm pretty sure most laws say you can't brandish your firearm to intimidate, but maybe this means BEFORE there's a clear and present danger? Because ...

Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 86
Like Tree127Likes

Thread: Can you draw so the BGs will possibly "Back Off?"

  1. #1
    New Member Array davidnssbm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    6

    Can you draw so the BGs will possibly "Back Off?"

    I'm pretty sure most laws say you can't brandish your firearm to intimidate, but maybe this means BEFORE there's a clear and present danger? Because I'm reading "more guns, less crime" by John Lott and he lists countless instances in which a situation was avoided by a CCWer brandishing their firearm. He states most of these go unreported because the BG dont call the cops and the CCWer doesn't either since crisis was avoided.

    So lets say some shady figures are heading towards you and your lady and do the classic "split up" and begin to surround you. When is it okay to DRAW? or can/should you ONLY draw when it's your life or theirs?


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array Weeg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    529
    If you draw for gun...whether you fire or not, CALL THE POLICE. This way a case # is assigned.


    If you don't call, you can be sure the BG will, and whoever calls first is the victim.

  3. #3
    Member Array Olduser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Fly Over Land
    Posts
    299
    If I should ever draw my weapon I fully intend to shoot it. That said, the ole "it depends" takes over. I have never brandished my weapon, but pulling aside a jacket to expose a holstered weapon could be a possibility. For me, no certain answer, but I can tell you all about it afterward.
    "The only thing I'm an expert about is my experience."

  4. #4
    VIP Member
    Array archer51's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    21,577
    First off, welcome to the forum.

    Now for your question. You never draw, unless you feel your life is in danger or serious bodily harm is imminent. If you draw your weapon, you better be prepared to use it. It isn't made for intimidation, it's made to save your life. if the BG decides to break off the attack and your not forced to fire, that's fine, but never bet on that being the case.
    Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.

    USAF Retired
    NRA Life Member

  5. #5
    Distinguished Member Array SCXDm9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Columbia, SC
    Posts
    1,269

    Re: Can you draw so the BGs back off?

    If he backs off before I shoot him, its a good day for both of us... but if I draw, I intend to shoot.

    Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
    Tzadik, Eagleks, jbum and 4 others like this.

  6. #6
    Senior Moderator
    Array HotGuns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    14,924
    Contrary to popular belief, when you fear for your life and you draw your gun, that is NOT brandishing.

    If drawing your weapon forces the bad guys to back off, that's great...you have accomplished what you set out to do...defend yourself with a gun.

    If you are forced to shoot, then shoot.

    If you don't have to shoot, that is much better,cheaper, and easier to live with.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
    http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array Lish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    766
    If I draw it's gonna be because I truly feel I need it and will be ready to pull the trigger. If they run off before I have to, that's cool - less mess for me. The delicate spot is not too soon but certainly not too late. If I'm being circled, I'm reaching behind my hip, if it's a creepy guy asking for a smoke I won't draw - I agree with Weeg, call the police even if they run off. Even if the BG doesn't report you pulling your weapon, you may help out the next potential victim by police coming to the area if they did intend harm and decided to move on for easier prey.

  8. #8
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,917
    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Contrary to popular belief, when you fear for your life and you draw your gun, that is NOT brandishing.

    If drawing your weapon forces the bad guys to back off, that's great...you have accomplished what you set out to do...defend yourself with a gun.

    If you are forced to shoot, then shoot.

    If you don't have to shoot, that is much better,cheaper, and easier to live with.
    Words of wisdom right there!
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  9. #9
    Distinguished Member
    Array oldnfat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,464
    If I ever have to draw my gun, my decision has been made. I will use deadly force if it is required. After I draw the decision is the BGs if he is shot or stops the threat.
    Ghost1958 and msgt/ret like this.
    I shoot with a pistol and a Canon. We must all hang together amigos, or we will all hang separately. NRA life member.

  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array SCXDm9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Columbia, SC
    Posts
    1,269
    Too the OP's question, because 2 guys split up, that doesn't put my life in danger. I puts me on high alert, I might cause me to put my hand under my shirt and on my pistol.... but if I draw my gun because 2 poorly dressed guys split up, I might be seen as the aggressor and be shot by someone I put in fear of their life!

    Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
    crossfireltd and AZ_Larz_NY like this.

  11. #11
    Ex Member Array gregnsc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    455
    A good friend of mine,and his wife were xmas shopping a couple of yrs ago at a mall.He said he parks his truck farther out,to keep it from getting hit by a car door,or scratched.Anyway,they were putting their stuff in,and he said 2 males,were walking their way.He looked around, and he saw no reason,for them to be walking towards them.He said they gave him a bad feeling.As they got closer,he acted like he was looking at something on the bottom of his shirt.He raised it high enough,so they could see his gun.They stopped and were talking to each other,and went the other way.Maybe that stopped a robbery,maybe not.He said they did call cops,just to let them know.
    Will_Power likes this.

  12. #12
    Member Array Olduser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Fly Over Land
    Posts
    299
    Quote Originally Posted by Olduser View Post
    If I should ever draw my weapon I fully intend to shoot it.
    I felt the need to clarify this a bit. This statement is a reflection of how I've conditioned myself to think should I ever draw my weapon. Thats not the time to think about what I might / may do. So I wrote it the way I've prepared myself to act.
    stevenshizzle likes this.
    "The only thing I'm an expert about is my experience."

  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array Rcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    1,746
    archer51 and HotGuns said it best ... all I have to say is:

    Welcome from Utah.
    tcox4freedom likes this.
    "Government is not the solution to our problem; government IS the problem". - Ronald Reagan 1981

  14. #14
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,917
    Quote Originally Posted by gregnsc View Post
    A good friend of mine,and his wife were xmas shopping a couple of yrs ago at a mall.He said he parks his truck farther out,to keep it from getting hit by a car door,or scratched.Anyway,they were putting their stuff in,and he said 2 males,were walking their way.He looked around, and he saw no reason,for them to be walking towards them.He said they gave him a bad feeling.As they got closer,he acted like he was looking at something on the bottom of his shirt.He raised it high enough,so they could see his gun.They stopped and were talking to each other,and went the other way.Maybe that stopped a robbery,maybe not.He said they did call cops,just to let them know.
    He wouldn't have been the first guy to employ that strategy.

    Is it the wisest thing to do? Maybe... Maybe not. But it worked in this case, and that's the important thing.

    However, just be aware, doing things which may be of questionable wisdom, may also have consequences you did not intend. So, had someone (maybe even the badguys) had called the police to report a man with a gun... It could end up causing you some level of grief. You just never know.

    For me... Even though it worked, I feel in that situation, it may not have been the smartest move. I would have likely confronted them with a command presence once they approached to within a certain distance and asked them what they wanted. Thus, putting them on notice that you are aware of their presence, you are prepared to respond, and at the same time letting them know in no uncertain terms that their advances are not welcome. I can convey that message without showing my gun, or putting my hand on it.

    The next move would be dependent on what they did.

    All of this is predicated on the fact that they are approaching you with empty and visible hands. Having their hands inside their hoodie or otherwise occupied with some implement which could be used as a weapon would dictate a completely different response.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    27,057
    Quote Originally Posted by davidnssbm View Post
    I'm pretty sure most laws say you can't brandish your firearm to intimidate, but ...
    Depends on the specific wording of your state's statutes. They vary, from state to state.

    Generally speaking, in most states you're justified whenever you are at legitimate risk of loss of life or crippling injury such that you believe your actions are reasonable to stop that threat.

    While I haven't reviewed all states' use-of-force statutes, nearly all I have seen make no distinction between drawing and actually firing. They simply state that you're either being legitimately threatened with loss of life or serious injury, or you're not. If so, you should have no problem drawing, even if it turns out you end up not firing for whatever reason (ie, the felon flees or goes instantly compliant the moment you draw).

    Most states have brandishing/menacing type statutes that cover unjustifiable presentation of a weapon against another. I suppose that in states where there's no brandishing/menacing statutes and no distinction in the use-of-force statutes regarding drawing/preparing in advance of firing, then you might be willing to be a test case with respect to drawing anyway, short of your life being on the line. I wouldn't suggest doing so, for all the good that might do you.

    A key is usually the "reasonable man" standard that's in most use-of-force statutes, whether you reasonably believed the threat was legitimate and real, and that you were thereby justified in taking steps to stop the threat.

    Keep in mind that such "reasonableness" language in the statutes basically mean that the DA, GJ and other jurors are going to be the ones who determine whether your actions at the time were reasonable, to their way of thinking, based on what they know from the reports/witnesses. Obviously, their view might well differ from yours at the time. Unless you enjoy publicly paid for "three hots and a cot," you need to be sure the threat is legitimate and your actions are indeed reasonable per the statutes.

    Something for consideration, beyond your statutes: The Deadly Force Triangle, A.O.J.

    Suggested reading:

    • In The Gravest Extreme, by Massad Ayoob.
    • Washington State Gun Rights and Responsibilities, by Dave Workman.
    • And, of course, the Washington State statutes, specifically for use-of-force but also all of the firearms and CHL-related laws: RCW 9A.16 and RCW 9.41, among others.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

can you brandish your firearm during a knockout game incident in texas

,

how loud is your gun? www.defensivecarry.com

,

in south carolina the law that justification to draw your weapon

,

persuasive outline on chl carriers

,

texas chl when can i draw

,

texas chl when can you brandish

,

when can you brandish a weapon

Click on a term to search for related topics.

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors