Coming home and you notice a police cruiser... - Page 3

Coming home and you notice a police cruiser...

This is a discussion on Coming home and you notice a police cruiser... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by walther1 I bet that 6 minutes felt like 6 hours. I have had to hit my emergency button once, and 6 minutes ...

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Thread: Coming home and you notice a police cruiser...

  1. #31
    Member Array Only Glock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walther1 View Post
    I bet that 6 minutes felt like 6 hours.
    I have had to hit my emergency button once, and 6 minutes DOES feel like 6 hours. Hearing the sirens of the cavalry coming is like hearing angels from heaven when you are rolling around fighting some dirtbag who wants to do you harm.

    Also, I am grateful to know how many people there are who are willing to put themselves at risk to help an officer in trouble.

    Thanks sincerely.

    Charlie
    When you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.
    From the essay "TRIBES" by Bill Whittle


  2. #32
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    We are still in a tiny minority, though, Charlie.

    When you think about it, do you really think that most citizens who DON'T carry are going to be as willing as we are to engage if you are being whupped?

    You'd be lucky if they could think to go and call 911!

    What we need is more CCWing citizens, and lots of 'em!

  3. #33
    Member Array Only Glock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    We are still in a tiny minority, though, Charlie.

    When you think about it, do you really think that most citizens who DON'T carry are going to be as willing as we are to engage if you are being whupped?

    You'd be lucky if they could think to go and call 911!

    What we need is more CCWing citizens, and lots of 'em!
    I (and a large number on my department) agree 1000%.
    When you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.
    From the essay "TRIBES" by Bill Whittle

  4. #34
    Member Array Only Glock's Avatar
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    My response to this scenario is simple: if the officer is down on the ground and the dirtbag is trying to disarm him/her, place muzzle firmly to the side of said dirtbag's head, turn my face away, squeeze trigger once.

    End of fight.
    When you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.
    From the essay "TRIBES" by Bill Whittle

  5. #35
    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Only Glock View Post
    My response to this scenario is simple: if the officer is down on the ground and the dirtbag is trying to disarm him/her, place muzzle firmly to the side of said dirtbag's head, turn my face away, squeeze trigger once.

    End of fight.
    +1

    If you are carrying here in AZ, if a Sherrif, DPS, or local police officer requests assistance, you're required to give it. I don't think I'd even think twice about it, though. It's a uniformed officer and his car is in my drive. The SOB trying to do him harm is toast.
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  6. #36
    Member Array MIKEV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    We are still in a tiny minority, though, Charlie.

    When you think about it, do you really think that most citizens who DON'T carry are going to be as willing as we are to engage if you are being whupped?

    You'd be lucky if they could think to go and call 911!

    What we need is more CCWing citizens, and lots of 'em!
    Unfortunately there are those of us who don't carry because we are told by our governments that we cannot. and YES dispite the fact that that same officer in my yard, under different circumstances, would arrest me if found to be with a firearm off of my property I would come to his aid with whatever I could bring to bear.

    I am former Military Police so maybe I am just wired differently.

    Thank you

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOLOLUCKY View Post
    The boot to the head would be a first reaction.
    .
    Yup, that was my first thought.

    I know for sure it would move the biggest fellow.

    I'd hope the officer could take control after that.

    Someone else mentioned that "if I'm just ariving home, my gun is already in hand"

    That is me too. I draw at the door and put my gun in my back pocket. Every little bit of practice helps.

  8. #38
    Member Array crankinNM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    For all who offer "boot to the head," "maglite upside the head," or any other brawl-type response, I have to ask, what if you swing and miss, or swing but don't greatly affect an adrenalized, crazed, powerful man??
    I'm seeing a guy on the ground horizontal with an officer. I practice this particular kick. It is powerful and fast.

    There is vertaully no way that someone in this position is going to be able to get the upper hand on me.

    Kick and move is my thought. If it is superman, and he turns his attention to me, rounds will be fired.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Array purple88yj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    All of that concern about the deadly threat this guy poses, and still you are talking about just maybe breaking an arm and hoping that doing so takes the fight out of him?

    Why are so many people saying they'd opt for iffy half-measures here?
    The guy is fighting a cop and may get control of a FIREARM. The fact that he is fighting the cop is proof of this intention. This is not a time to offer a plan that may or may not succeed. Gunshots will succeed. Just get close enough to place them with certainty.

    Why, though, break an arm and THEN give the "coup de grace?" Why not just make the coup de grace FIRST?
    I would not take a shot immediately upon arrival simply because if there is a H2H combat where both parties are on the ground, both individuals (assuming it is one-on-one) will be in front of the muzzle at any given point in time. Too risky to take the chance. Now given the actual situation, things may be different.

    By breaking an arm, that is one limb that can't be used with a gun (for obvious reasons I would be going for the offending arm). If that doesn't take the fight out of the dog, at least you have eliminated that limb from being useful. I'm not talking about trying out your latest ninja move that you learned at your buddies dojo in his basement. I am talking a real world fighting techniques. Stomping, punching, kicking, gouging, whatever necessary. The only dirty fight is the one you didn't win.

    By going in hands on, you are in more controll. Number one, the odds that the BG is even going to hear your verbal commands in very slim. If he does hear, the odds that he will comply are even slimmer. Think about it for just one minute. If the guy is struggling with a cop, what makes you think he is even going to listen to you? This guy is fighting a cop because he knows he is going to jail or prison and doesn't want to go. You walk up with your gun drawn and scream at the guy to stop. Yeah right, the only reason the guy doesn't flip you off is because both hands are occupied.

    By getting a limb and pulling it away from the fight decreases the BG's leverage. By eliminating that limb it can no longer be used for leverage or to grab. At that point, unless the guy is on something other than adreneline, he will be in more pain than he can handle and fight effectively with.

    The officer has been in the fight for who knows how long, he may or may not be able to subdue the offender. You being fresh, and at a better vantage point will/should be able to be more effective.

    Just because you have a hammer doesn't mean that every problem is a nail.

  10. #40
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    When you pull in the driveway you notice he is, instead, wrestling with a man in the bushes next to your house. When you pull up, you get out of the car and the officer is screaming at you for help. The man keeps reaching for the police officer's pistol, is somewhat larger (6'-200lbs.), and that is all the information you have. What do you do?


    This doesn't appear to say that they are rolling on the ground exactly. They are just wrestling in the bushes. The other guy is about the same size as me, so the way I figure it the cop know intervention will be on his behalf. He hasn't said the kill this guy, or shoot him, just asking for help. I would have to help the cop subdue the other guy without running up and doing a double tap the the skull or whatever. More than likely would be going after an arm or if available a choke hold on the neck that will allow the officer to gain control and cuff the other guy. I figure is I am in position a good choke hold with they guys head pulled back might even require grabbing they eye sockets or nostrils, whater, will take most of the fight off the cop and let him do his job.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  11. #41
    VIP Member Array SatCong's Avatar
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    How about getting handfull of hair, ears or eyes and bend his head back and shove 3'' of a 5'' barrel down his throat and don't mine his teeth, that well his attention if not you know the next step. It work in one case that I know of.

  12. #42
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by purple88yj View Post
    I would not take a shot immediately upon arrival simply because if there is a H2H combat where both parties are on the ground, both individuals (assuming it is one-on-one) will be in front of the muzzle at any given point in time. Too risky to take the chance.
    If the melee is so chaotic and tumbling around that you can't get a decent head-shot on the attacker from a couple of feet away, how would you be certain that the attacker is not right about to have control of the cop's gun? I'm still thinking that the intersection on the graph of safest move and most expeditious move occurs at "shoot him."

    By going in hands on, you are in more controll. Number one, the odds that the BG is even going to hear your verbal commands in very slim. If he does hear, the odds that he will comply are even slimmer. Think about it for just one minute. If the guy is struggling with a cop, what makes you think he is even going to listen to you?
    I was not one of the people who postulated trying to get him to obey verbal commands. He had that chance, no doubt, when the officer arrived on the scene. Sorry buddy, one chance is all you get.

    The officer has been in the fight for who knows how long, he may or may not be able to subdue the offender. You being fresh, and at a better vantage point will/should be able to be more effective.
    It is because I realize the officer may be on his last few breaths in this fight that I worry about the potential that the large, strong attacker abandons the fight with the officer, who is winded and not much good, probably shaking and barely able to aim his gun if he still has it. The attacker then turns on ME, and the cop is not any use to me as far as helping in the fight that will follow.

    So once again, I figure that the surest way to end this quickly is probably to fire on the attacker. I can't think of good reasons why we want to preserve this guy's life so very much. It sounds like some here care a bit much that we take steps to not "have to" kill him. I don't feel that way.

    Just because you have a hammer doesn't mean that every problem is a nail.
    If I know that I can try a featherduster, a shovel, a rake and a pepper grinder to solve the problem but I also am pretty sure I'm going to have to use the hammer in the end, I don't figure on wasting time trying the first four tools.

  13. #43
    Senior Member Array hsuCowboy98's Avatar
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    So once again, I figure that the surest way to end this quickly is probably to fire on the attacker. I can't think of good reasons why we want to preserve this guy's life so very much. It sounds like some here care a bit much that we take steps to not "have to" kill him. I don't feel that way.

    It isnt that he deserves to live. It is that you cannot control the direction that your bullet will take once it enters the body of the BG. It could be you hit the guy COM, but the bullet penetrates his chest, and strikes the officer in a vital artery, killing them both.

    Im not going to say that you shouldnt shoot him, or that he wouldnt deserve it. I will say however, that you had better be a 100% shooter in close combat high stress situations, because if you miss, or shoot through the BG and kill a LEO, you will have to answer for your actions, in criminal court, civil court, or both. It could cost you and your family more than you may know.

    Questions will be posed as to why you acted the way you did. The lawyers will ask why a perfectly fit man choose to become a vigilante and try to take the law into his own hands and ended up killing.

    If you are physically fit, able to fight HTH, or have other options available, then by all means use them. If there is not imminent danger of the officer being killed, your actions will come into question.

    I dont mean to sound rash, but I deal with this stuff daily, and sometimes the "kill em all because theyre trash" method is counter productive and costly. Ive seen community leaders and meth-heads both attack LEO's one minute, and be crying piles of humanity the next.
    Fear No Evil.

  14. #44
    Senior Member Array afeazell21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
    Draw, quick scan for other BGs, move to advantaged position with clear backstop (i.e. so I don't hit the officer).

    Command the subject to raise his hands and step away from the officer.

    If he does not immediately comply and continues to attempt to disarm the officer, shoot for effect. IMHO, any individual attempting to disarm a uniformed law enforcement officer is an imminent deadly threat. He has a purpose in mind for which he wants that gun.

    Matt

    +1 for MattLarson!!!!!
    "Dont be afraid to go after what you want to do, and what you want to be. But don't be afraid to be willing to pay the price." - Lane Frost

  15. #45
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    First of all I have a serious heart condition and cannot get involved in a phsysical struggle that could lead to my death. I reasonably will be in fear of the officer's life and my own should the BG manage to wrestle the officer's weapon from him and possibly use on both of us. Therefore I would verbaly warn the BG to comply with the officer and advise him if he continues to pursue the officers gun that I will shot him. If the BG fails to comply with my verbal demand then I would have no other choice to follow through with carefully placed shots from my weapon until the assailant is stopped. Having feared for the officer's life and my own. I probably really be in bad emotional and physical shape after such an altercation.
    Last edited by Shooter45; October 27th, 2006 at 07:26 AM.

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