This is a discussion on Coming home and you notice a police cruiser... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; LEO: Shoot him!!! Me: But I might hit you! LEO: Just shoot at both of us, cause one of us needs some relief! My apologies ...
LEO: Shoot him!!!
Me: But I might hit you!
LEO: Just shoot at both of us, cause one of us needs some relief!
My apologies to a certain southern comedian, who's name currently eludes me.
In this scenario, there exists a certain difficulty in hitting your target, however, action of some kind is warranted. This is not the time to be a witness. I submit that any affirmative action will be beneficial and warranted. Anything from blowing your horn, using the cruiser's radio to ask for assistance, physical contact, to deploying deadly force. Of course, keep your Aces hidden. The LEO took that job knowing he might be killed in the line of duty. You didn't. To fully commit your life to this fight is a personal decision.
"Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18
Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
Paramedics With Guns Scare People!
Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca
"If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper
In MI, I would have been summoned by a police officer to assist in the situation, dubbing me temporary police power until the situation is handled. If the BG would have attacked me, he would be charged with assaulting an officer. This is due to the Hail and Cry common law that is still upheld in MI, when an officer seeks assistance from a civilian, that civilian is deputized until the assistance is no longer needed.i wonder how you/I would be protected by the city while genuinely helping one of a city finest if we actually shot the BG? (I don't wanna drag the post off topic though)
Also, with our recent passing of immunity in self defense, he or his family couldn't touch me.
07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006
Probably the only home based FFL that doesn't do transfers.
Here is what one man did in Baton Rough LA when faced with a similar situation:
There are about a dozen articles in the archives on this incident.
Bottom line: perp wrestling and beating an officer on the ground, officer fires up into the perp 3 times with a 40 cal., hits him once. Officer yells for help. Homies stand around laughing. Our hero, coming out of the Autozone, who is in a neck brace and using a cain to walk, gets his 45 cal out of his truck, tell the perp to stop, then shoots and hits the perp 3 times with no effect. The fourth shot was a head shot. Incident over (except for the race card coming into play).
Last edited by DMR; October 27th, 2006 at 01:08 PM.
I remember hearing about that, DMR. Wasn't the officer in some hot water because the guy was supposedly some upstanding citizen or some such drivel? Could have been a similar but different situation, though. Though IMO, upstanding citizens don't take on LEO's.
At first the papers said he was a successful entrepreneur, which he might have been, but later it came out he had been convicted of and under indictment for other assault crimes. He had also been a boxer in college.
Last edited by DMR; October 27th, 2006 at 02:04 PM.
Bob The Great, I don't know about the local LEO where you live, but the ones here have emergency buttons on their portables, as well as a couple of large red buttons on their computer that calls out an "officer in distress." If those buttons are hit and nobody calls in a error code for hitting the button an all units call is put out over every department in the county.
As for this situation... There are so many variables. The only correct answer I could possibly give is that I would help the officer.
My point is, that while all of us would try to help, the original post wasn't clear as to the whole situation. I would hope that we all know the appropriate response when we see it. For example, the other thread "Good samaritan video with happy ending" is a clear shoot first, no questions situation IMO. But resisting arrest happens all the time with no need for a shooting (well, maybe a need, but no legal defense for it ).
If the officers gun clears leather and he doesn't have 100% control of it, BG=DeadGuy.
I hope my response makes sense, basically I think you have to see it to know it.
I am just offering a different viewpoint.
I think it would be unwise for a person who is not trained in disarming techniques, or hand-to-hand combat, to attempt to get down and dirty with this suspect. I think that an attempt to muscle this out would be prone to disaster -- after all, even the trained cop is having a bad time of it -- and using a gun would be far less likely to end badly for the cop and the helpful civilian.
Well, now that you put it all that way, I guess I'd just leave the two to fight it out in the bushes, tell the cop I hope he makes out okay, head on inside, crack a Pepsi and see what's on t.v.
I mean, talk about damned if you do and damned if you don't!
We were given no more or less in this scenario than we would be likely to know about it if we stumbled on the real thing. Yes, we would have to make our decision and go with it.
The only real "safe" thing for us, if we don't want to have to answer for doing too little or too much, is to stay the F out of it!
I don't think we have to "stay out of it...", but there are real possibilities that this situation does not call for deadly force.
Excecuting the attacker is very extreme without knowing all of the facts.
That's why, in my original response (whack the attacker with a shovel), I opted for a less-than-lethal response.
Let's change the hypothetical, for arguments sake:
Turns out that the attacker was the LEO's brother. The LEO happened upon his brother, who was very intoxicated, and they started to brawl.
Although they were brawling, there is no way that the LEO's life was in real danger.
So, if you happen upon this and execute the attacker - the LEO might not be too happy that you just blew away his drunken brother....
Bottom line, if you come upon a situation in progress, there is no way of knowing the whole story. Opting to use deadly force can have a very bad outcome if you judge it incorrectly.
That's entirely possible, but I've never been inside a police cruiser, so I wouldn't know. But even so, adding the 5-6 seconds that it would take me to get to the cruiser, lean in, find and hit the panic button, then exit the vehicle and close on the struggle might very well cost the officer his life. It requires me to take my attention away from the situation and find something in an unfamiliar vehicle, while hoping that the situation that I am now not giving my full attention to doesn't take a change for the worse.
Afterwards, by all means, make sure there are more units on the way. But as the situation was laid out, there isn't time to make a side stop on the way to help.
Tire iron to the head. No way I draw unless I'm taking a shot and no way I'm taking a shot unless the separate as there is WAY WAY WAY too much chance of over penetration or just plain missing.
If the presumably BG backed off and then came back, I would draw and shoot. If the BG got control of the weapon even after I tire ironed him, I would risk a shot too, but not until then.