Coming home and you notice a police cruiser...

Coming home and you notice a police cruiser...

This is a discussion on Coming home and you notice a police cruiser... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Alright, you come home and notice a police cruiser in front of your home with lights on. No other cars are present. No one else ...

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Thread: Coming home and you notice a police cruiser...

  1. #1
    Member Array walther1's Avatar
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    Coming home and you notice a police cruiser...

    Alright, you come home and notice a police cruiser in front of your home with lights on. No other cars are present. No one else can see your home from the street (i.e. end of street and have privacy or neighbors are gone, etc.) Your family is inside the house, to the best of your knowledge, and, as far as you are know, is unaware of anything going on outside. When you pull past the cruiser you notice that the police officer is not in the vehicle. When you pull in the driveway you notice he is, instead, wrestling with a man in the bushes next to your house. When you pull up, you get out of the car and the officer is screaming at you for help. The man keeps reaching for the police officer's pistol, is somewhat larger (6'-200lbs.), and that is all the information you have. What do you do?

    In case anyone needs to know, this is not hypothetical. It actually happened to a family member. I will not discuss how my family member responded but am wondering what you folks would do.

    If you need additional details I will provide as many as possible, but remember all the details you have are just based on visual cues (i.e. you don't know if this crazy guy just hurt your family inside, etc.) and you have to react quick. It would be best to consider this your house (for sake of plant locations, door locations, fences, etc).

    Thanks for the feedback!


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Get as close as possible and administer a DT headshot to the BG.

    Pull BG off of the officer and inquire to his/her (officer's) well being.

    Cover BG to give officer time to recover.

    Order family members inside to stay inside.

    Make sure officer calls it in and when help arrives inform responding BU that I am a good guy. My gun will probably be still trained on BG at low ready.

    1) Headshot is an effective place for a bullet to go to stop a threat. I don't know how long said struggle has been taking place and I need to neutralize BG as fast as possible. Said officer might have been wearing down, if BG had gotten a hold of officer's gun, as soon as that muzzle clears the holster a shot could mean death for the officer. If he got shot in the leg, it could have severed a main artery and he could have bled to death before EMS could arrive.

    2) Why did you shoot him when you could have just pulled him off? I mean, you pulled him off after you shot him? Why shoot him, then pull him off when you could have just pulled him off?

    Because I felt physical force would have been ineffective. I pulled the BG off of the officer after I shot the BG and was satisfied the threat to the officer's life was stopped. This was to allow the officer to breath freely and not have his lungs compressed by weight of BG and remove the threat from the officer as much as possible and to allow the officer to regain composure so he could call for EMS for the BG and for himself.

    3) The officer has been through enough. Help until BU arrives. Let officer regain composure and start to get over the attack, catch breath, call for EMS, etc. Chances are he sent out a ONA call, but maybe not.

    4) Family members to stay inside for their safety and the less people around and about is better.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  3. #3
    Senior Member Array walvord's Avatar
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    Since I'd be unarmed..

    coming home from work, I work on Federal property, I'd take my belt off and wrap it around the BG's neck as I attempt to position myself between the LEO's firearm and the BG. The BG would now have to be dealing with me and the LEO could pull his firearm and end the struggle. But then again, I could be all wrong. I wouldn't have many other options that come to mind.
    The most exhilarating thing in life is getting shot at with no results.
    - Winston Churchill
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  4. #4
    Member Array tj1231's Avatar
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    Considering that I'm just coming home(if from work), my gun will probably be in my hand already. I offer assistance in whatever way possible. Is the officer on top or bottom? Does he just need help restraining the guy, or is he losing the battle for the gun? There are too many unknowns for me. I would probably start with a boot to the BG's head, then help to restrain, but if the officers in REAL trouble, I shoot first, maybe a contact shot to the head just to ensure I don't hit the good guy. Basically, do whatever you can, to the best of your ability and you should be protected by "Good Samaritan" laws (I hope).

  5. #5
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    Draw, quick scan for other BGs, move to advantaged position with clear backstop (i.e. so I don't hit the officer).

    Command the subject to raise his hands and step away from the officer.

    If he does not immediately comply and continues to attempt to disarm the officer, shoot for effect. IMHO, any individual attempting to disarm a uniformed law enforcement officer is an imminent deadly threat. He has a purpose in mind for which he wants that gun.

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Array SOLOLUCKY's Avatar
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    The boot to the head would be a first reaction.
    a shot to the head a second and if in dire straits for the officer maybe the first action but not the first inclination.

    i wonder how you/I would be protected by the city while genuinely helping one of a city finest if we actually shot the BG? (I don't wanna drag the post off topic though)

    as, per the story, it was "solicited" help.
    R1

    This is mine. That is yours.

    Lets keep it that way.

  7. #7
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    I would help. Standing back and drawing won't do much here. The fight is already on, and the bad guy is focused on the officer. He needs help now, not in a few minutes.

    I would join in the fight, doing whatever it takes to let the officer regain control. Preferably, I would try and keep the fight on the ground, it will be easier to restrain BG now that it is two against one. I would still follow a proper use of force continuum.

  8. #8
    Member Array MIKEV's Avatar
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    I live in MD

    I don't have access to firearms outside of my residence. I DO have a 4 D cell Mag-Lite, under the drivers seat of my car, with which I would apply latterally (with as much force as I could muster) to the neck of the BG. (hopeing to cause immediate swelling to the major blood vessels in the neck). I would then substitute the Mag light in place of my right Forearm to the front of his neck (using a "Sleeper" like hold) while peeling off BG rearward and down to the ground. I would continue to apply pressure until the police officer was able to regain control of BG.

    I would then ask the officer if he would sign off on my "just cause" statement so that I can be properly armed if/when the BG or one of his friends comes back for revenge.

    MikeV

  9. #9
    Senior Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    I would help. Standing back and drawing won't do much here. The fight is already on, and the bad guy is focused on the officer. He needs help now, not in a few minutes.

    I would join in the fight, doing whatever it takes to let the officer regain control. Preferably, I would try and keep the fight on the ground, it will be easier to restrain BG now that it is two against one. I would still follow a proper use of force continuum.
    Here I will respectfully disagree. Adding another body into the close contact fight is not, IMHO, the best solution. You are introducing another gun into the wrestling match, doubling the BG's opportunities to gain hold of a weapon during the melee.

    He may be drugged up and feeling nothing, in which case he may well get loose.

    If he's got hold of the officer's weapon, he's an imminent lethal threat, IMHO.

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array purple88yj's Avatar
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    Get a hold of any available limb any apply as much pain to it as humanly possible (wrist lock, elbow lock, break bones what ever).

    I have no care of this persons welfare. First off, he is on my property, and I have no idea as to the wefare of my family as I have not been inside yet. Second, he is attempting to gain access to a deadly weapon, and I am not interested in being shot let alone killed. Hopefully breaking his arm would be enough to persuade him to stop fighting and trying to kill the officer or myself. Besides, if it is broken it can't be used nearly as effectively in a fight. This allows me opportunity to go for something a little more vital for a coup de grace.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
    Here I will respectfully disagree. Adding another body into the close contact fight is not, IMHO, the best solution. You are introducing another gun into the wrestling match, doubling the BG's opportunities to gain hold of a weapon during the melee.

    He may be drugged up and feeling nothing, in which case he may well get loose.

    If he's got hold of the officer's weapon, he's an imminent lethal threat, IMHO.

    Matt
    When dealing with lethal force, you cannot deal with "ifs". You have to deal with what is.
    By you drawing, have you not already introduced another gun into the fight?
    If he is drugged up and feels nothing, all the more reason he needs to be physically restrained, that is going to take two or more people. If he is drugged up, he is not going to care that someone else has a weapon pointed at him, if he even notices. You would be forced to shoot him to stop the fight, a very bad course of action if the officer is "wrestling around next to the bushes". If the situation allows you to safely shoot the BG, by all means do so.

  12. #12
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    I'll throw a wrinkle into this situation......it is just to make you think 'What if?'.......

    here's the wrinkle......What if it were to turn out the 'civilian' was your neighbor who just caught the LEO in bed with your wife?

    Maybe you just shot the wrong bad guy.....
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

  13. #13
    Member Array MIKEV's Avatar
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    My neighbor, has more guns than most folks do. He wouldn't be wrestling around with a cop fighting for the cops gun. If anything he would have brought his own to the party.

    In answer to your question, I have speent enough time with my neighbor that I would recognize him in any light conditions less pitch black. your wrinkle really isn't in my view point.

    But anyway my first post still applies.

    MikeV
    Last edited by MIKEV; October 26th, 2006 at 04:00 PM. Reason: ADDING CONTENT

  14. #14
    Member Array steve_db's Avatar
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    Coming home I'd be armed and my garage door would be opened as I'd have opened it as I pulled up.
    I'd grab a shovel and whack the BG(?) on back of the head.
    I'd then draw and be in the ready position to see how it unfolds.
    Last edited by steve_db; October 26th, 2006 at 04:09 PM.

  15. #15
    Member Array pappy's Avatar
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    I don't think my neighbor would try to get his gun, or go over there in the first place, if anything he would come up to me not the police officer.


    For the main topic, if hes reaching for the cops gun, I would go up and try to retain his hands somehow, or if I had something hard, I would try knock him out with a blow or two, If he had the gun in his hand, holstered or not, I would probably look for a clean shot.

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