Man opens "fire" in church

This is a discussion on Man opens "fire" in church within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061026/.../church_fire_6 SALEM, Ore. - A man ranting about "the blood" burst into a church sanctuary during a service, sloshed fuel onto people and started a ...

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Thread: Man opens "fire" in church

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Man opens "fire" in church

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061026/.../church_fire_6

    SALEM, Ore. - A man ranting about "the blood" burst into a church sanctuary during a service, sloshed fuel onto people and started a fire, police and church officials said Thursday.

    Some parishioners were able to smother the flames with their coats while another group tackled the man, said the Rev. Scott Erickson, pastor of the Peoples Church. Two older women from the congregation were burned when their clothing caught fire.

    "He ... was yelling things about the blood, and then he began to sprinkle the fluid and light it," Erickson said. "He was making slurs about things that are most precious to us."

    On Thursday, prosecutors said Kam Shing Chan, also known as Daniel Chan, 53, was held on charges of attempted aggravated murder, attempted assault, arson and reckless burning. Prosecutors, who did not suggest a motive, said the Salem man was to appear in court Friday.

    Sheriff's Deputy Kevin Rau said the man was also suspected of hijacking a cab to get there. The cabdriver had been threatened with a knife and had a slight neck wound, authorities said.

    About 300 people were in the church, said the Rev. Sam Miller, who was conducting the service Wednesday night. No one in the church had ever seen the man before, he said.

    One injured woman's hair and back caught fire, and she had to be rolled on the carpet to get the flames out, Erickson said. Salem Hospital reported she was treated in the emergency room and released.

    The flames burned another woman's dress but was quickly extinguished, Erickson said.

    "This is all very upsetting," he said. "This won't deter us from having services. We'll go on, and we can assure everyone that they are safe here."

    The Peoples Church was closed Thursday as the sheriff's department investigated what it called vandalism and arson, Erickson said. He said the Pentecostal church, a member of the General Council of the Assemblies of God, would be open for Sunday services.
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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    OK, so this may well go into the scenarios forum. What would you do?
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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    Senior Member Array Moga's Avatar
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    crooks & crackpots

    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    "He ... was yelling things about the blood, and then he began to sprinkle the fluid and light it," Erickson said. "He was making slurs about things that are most precious to us."
    Reading this report reminds me once again that there are A LOT of mentally unstable people in society walking around undiagnosed. To me these people are as common as the crooks that seek to take by force what doesn't belong to them.

    This guy's instability caused him to attack a church congregation. Imagine the spin that would have been "the news" if his weapon of choice was a firearm instead of fuel and an ignition source. The culprit would be the gun, not the person.

    Personally, my choice to own and train with handguns is directly related to my belief in the number of crazed people that unbeknownst surround us daily. Like this nut job.

    Staying out of trouble and keeping distance between yourself and places/situations that can lead to static can get you only so far when people snap for no apparent reason. How much jeopardy is generally involved with going to one's place of worship, for instance?

    It also makes a good case for 24/7 carry, IMO.

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    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
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    We need to jump into action to immeadiately call for the ban of all fire - anywhere. Mr and Mrs. America, give it up.

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    VIP Member Array Old Chief's Avatar
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    The situation was handled in the best possible manner. Even if one had a handgun for protection in this instance it is highly unlikely that it could have been used as there was a crowd of 300 bystanders in the immediate area and a clear shot probably would have been impossible.
    One should never confuse good fortune with good training.
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    Member Array Dihappy's Avatar
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    It doesnt say how they stopped him :(

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    Member Array MIKEV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dihappy View Post
    It doesnt say how they stopped him :(
    "ANOTHER GROUP TACKLED THE MAN."

    sounds to me like how they stopped him.

    thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEV View Post
    "ANOTHER GROUP TACKLED THE MAN."

    sounds to me like how they stopped him.

    thanks
    Theres the answer how you handle this one.

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    Member Array JackJ's Avatar
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    A number of people did tackle the person as others put out the fire. It was probably the best thing to do in this situation. I head up security an Ohio church and many times deploying a fiirearm can almost be impossible due to the crowds and location of the suspect. Getting a clear shot may be impossible. The level of force needed to stop/restrain the suspect needs to be in line with the offence. Though deadly force could have been used, there may have been a price to pay for it. In this case it turned out fairly well

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    Very Simple...

    I would not have tackled a man with gas and matches...

    Step out into the aisle...
    Check in back of BG for safe target...
    Two to the 'center of mass'...one to the 'head'...
    Begin slowly repeating..."I feared for my life and lives others..."
    Call 911...

    OMO

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    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Something else which may not have been mentioned...Fuel type. You may not know in this situation what type of fuel he was using. This means that even if you do have a clear shot (with no bystanders behind) you may well ignite the fuel he already sloshed on and/or around you IF it's gasoline. Gasoline fumes are EASILY ignited. Good knife control would be needed.

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    VIP Member Array sgtD's Avatar
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    Exclamation This wasn't the first time this guy went nuts.

    http://www.ktvz.com/story.cfm?nav=oregon&storyID=17098

    They should have kept him locked up the 1st time, after he killed his own daughter.

    So much for the idea of the "correctional system."
    When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.

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    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    More of the same empty words we always hear...

    "We'll go on, and we can assure everyone that they are safe here."


    WHY do they always insist on claiming that they're keeping people safe? I think it's pretty damned clear that they were NOT safe in this situation. What is this guy claiming they are doing, have done, or will do that will prevent someone in the future from bringing flammable fuel and a source of ignition into the church? Strip searches? Airport-style "puffer" machines?

    The fact is, they say these words emptily just to mollify the ignorant and unthinking le.


    But those of us with brains know that no one can make them safe.

    This kind of thing could happen ANYWHERE.

    If someone wanted to, he could fill a mason jar with a quart of gasoline, walk into a movie theater with it, dump it onto seven people in the row in front of him, and set them on fire, in a matter of seconds. They'll probably be horribly burned or killed before anyone can make an attempt at putting out the flames, and gasoline flames are not easy to put out, are they?

    If a terrorist group wanted to throw this country into utter chaos, they would be committing this kind of attack a dozen times a day in all manner of locations, until people were afraid to go anywhere. And our society would crumble because of the realization that NOTHING can "keep you safe" if someone is determined to harm you.

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    Member Array vanilla_gorilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    I would not have tackled a man with gas and matches...

    Step out into the aisle...
    Check in back of BG for safe target...
    Two to the 'center of mass'...one to the 'head'...
    Begin slowly repeating..."I feared for my life and lives others..."
    Call 911...
    Those aren't "aisles", those a firing lanes.

    Something else which may not have been mentioned...Fuel type. You may not know in this situation what type of fuel he was using. This means that even if you do have a clear shot (with no bystanders behind) you may well ignite the fuel he already sloshed on and/or around you IF it's gasoline. Gasoline fumes are EASILY ignited. Good knife control would be needed
    Gasoline is not so easy to ignite as you think. A bullet isn't going to do it unless it strikes something and makes a spark of some sort. It ain't like the movies.
    I'll take a .45 and a large side of JHPs, please.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    From his guilty/insanity conviction, he came through a half-way house, according to some reports. Seems to me he now needs to be sent to the all-the-way house (aka, prison for violent felons).
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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