Restaurant Burglary- What Should I Do?

[drummerboy51]

First off, just wanted to say that this is a great forum where I have found a ton of useful information! Great place to be!

Now on to the scenerio. I am a college student who has a carry permit, and carries daily everywhere I go (where legal). I am also a manager at a fast food restaurant. As a manager, usually the night manager, I have the duties of closing down the store, counting down the drawers and safe, cleaning the store, and overseeing a crew of about 5-6 people on my shift. As a manager, I have a responsibility to keep my employees safe as well as any customers who may be in the store. We are located in a fairly nice part of town, and are a fairly "nice" fast food restaurant, and in my 3 years of working here I have always felt safe. That being said, several businesses not far from us have been robbed recently, and that got me thinking. If someone came in and wanted to rob the restaurant, making it clear that they have a gun, how should I handle it? I always carry while I am at work, but I also know it's practically impossible to draw on someone who has already drawn down on you. Should I give them the money and hope they run and then call the police? Or should I try to defend myself and my crew members? Our registers can only be opened through either a transaction or a manager's override card. The safe code is also only known by managers. So I would be the one to handle the situation if he wanted money, since I would be the only one who could give it to him. I was just curious and wanted to know ya'lls opinions and viewpoints on how I should handle this if the situation ever arises. I understand that I should not try to be a hero and save the day, but I also want to protect myself and the lives of my crew and customers. Thanks for your advice!

Thomas

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[BkCo1]

Only you know the answer to that situation and it depends on the events.

[marcclarke]

OP, as one possible guide, you might consider reading the many stories of jewelery store owners who have defended themselves and their staff and customers when armed robbers attempted to rob their stores.

Other factors to consider are personal liability and court costs. If a robber attempts to rob the establishment you manage, and then either the crippled robber or the deceased robber's relatives sue you for damages in civil court (yes, this does happen) who pays your court costs and penalties if you lose the civil suit? Your employer or you? If your employer enthusiastically backs your defending yourself and your employees, in written company policy, that is one thing. If the company's attitude is that you are on your own if you violate company policy or maybe accidentally shoot a customer while trying to shoot an armed robber, then you may want to consider making the decision that maximizes only your own personal safety and survival.

[DannyB1954]

Be certain the owner of the business allows you to carry. If something came down they could easily "throw you under the bus". See if your business has an established policy. Many companies will say cooperate with the bad guy, because in the long run it is cheaper than hiring an attorney to fight a court case, and then there might be a bleeding dead person in the store for a few hours. People mostly don't want to step over them to place an order. Also check your local and Stale laws. Here in Nevada, you can not carry a gun onto school property without their written permission.

[drummerboy51]

The building is not posted, so people can legally carry in the store. As far as employees, the GM overhauled the employee handbook/policies this past summer, and I did see that there was a no weapons policy, however, I have not signed the handbook, nor have been asked to, as I think it is mainly for new hires, and pertains to hourly employees and not managers. The GM and I have actually had a discussion about concealed carry and said that he trusts me and doesn't have a problem with me carrying, but I don't know how the owner feels about it. I'm uneasy about asking the owner for fear of him saying that I can't carry.

[Gene83]

It would be unusual if your employer doesn't already have a policy as to how to behave during a robbery. Usually, it's try to remain calm and give the robber what they want. That's what I would do. If a robber comes in with a pistol drawn, you are already at a disadvantage. If they just threaten that they have a gun, I would give them what they want rather than call their bluff. In a shooting situation, I doubt seriously that your employer will back you up.

[drummerboy51]

Yeah, we do have a poster in the office that tells what to do in emergencies such as severe storms, injuries, fire, and robbery. And yes it is the usual give the robber what they want, remain calm, call 911 etc. I realize that really most times all they really want is the money and will flee after they get it. I just didn't know if there were any suggestions as to how to deal with the situation, if I should try to defend myself/employees, or just give him the money and call 911. I have never had to deal with a situation like this, and pray I never have to. I just want to be as prepared as I can mentally if something ever does happen.

[DFuller]

In a situation like that it is impossible to guess at all the possible scenarios that could play out BUT....

#1 it's NOT your money and not worth dying for if they have a gun on you or your crew
#2 all losses (minus deductible) would be covered by insurance anyway but again...not your money
#3 most chain stores (fast food) have a Corporate policy against weapons because their insurance requires it (I'm not saying I agree with this but it is a fact) so even if you stop a robbery you would likely lose your job...after all it IS in your employee handbook

If they already are drawn on you and you don't have the reflexes and draw speed of Clint Eastwood I wouldn't suggest trying. However if they try to separate you or the crew to a secluded area or begin to escalate the situation you will have to weigh the risk of doing nothing versus the risk of taking action and nobody on a Forum can accurately tell you when that critical point is...you have to make that call

personally I would rather look for a new job then die because I was afraid of violating company policy


.....

We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the law breaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is responsible for his actions....Ronald Reagan

[dukalmighty]

As long as they take the money and run don't do anything,but if they start herding everybody into the back I'm assuming it's to execute us,If It's me as soon as they leave me an opening I will react swiftly with maximum violence

[Ghost1958]

Im sort of a hard head but I gotta go with give em the money and if they leave your way way ahead. Like Duk if they have the money and start getting hinky moving folks, seperateing them, etc etc I figure im dead anyway and will take my chance to take one or two with me.

In my opinion calm is fine but you want to try to appear to be the least dangerous person there so they dont see you as a threat. No steely eyed looks or obviously looking for openings. Dont appear as if you have the capability to even think about trying anything. Then if you do have to try to come from behind the curve at least maybe youll have a bit of an edge.

[tacman605]

To me whether you have signed the handbook or not and whether you feel it is for new hires and not for managers you are aware of the policy.

One of the ways that this would be looked at is "What a reasonable and prudent person would do in the same situation". One of the factors that is first determined is was that person legally there or committing a legal act in the first place. I have to agree with the other post in that you would be thrown under the bus by the management.

Under the law of vicarious liability your employer is responsible for what you do on the job. He has given his position on firearms in the workplace and you alone are choosing to violate it. Should you take action, even though it saves the day, you would/could be held criminally and civilly liable. The claim of well I never signed the booklet probably would not cut it.

[BelaOkmyx]

Do you mean burglary or robbery? They are by no means the same thing. Burglary is theft plus trespassing. Robbery is theft plus assault. I wouldn't recommend using a weapon at all to stop a burglary at a restaurant. What are they going to steal, frozen patties? Just leave the area and call the police.

By your description I assume you really meant robbery. Most of the posters here have the right idea: give them the money. It is in no way worth it to shoot to protect the money in a cash register in a fast food restaurant. Even if you win the gunfight, just the cleanup will cost more than handing over the money.

What you would need to react to are:

Someone being shot for kicks, or out of hate, or panic.
Someone being sexually assaulted.
Someone being tortured to open up a safe or hand over more money.
Someone being used as a hostage.

In a holdup you want to get him his money and get him out of there as quickly as possible. So this is the most important judgment call you have to make: is this just a guy who needs drug money and is going to run like hell and go get high once he gets the contents of the register, or is he here for something else? Could be a guy with a grudge against someone who works there, could be a domestic dispute, or it could be a nut who hears voices telling him to go kill people in the restaurant. If you think he wants more than money, you know what you have to do.

[Ghost1958]

To me whether you have signed the handbook or not and whether you feel it is for new hires and not for managers you are aware of the policy.

One of the ways that this would be looked at is "What a reasonable and prudent person would do in the same situation". One of the factors that is first determined is was that person legally there or committing a legal act in the first place. I have to agree with the other post in that you would be thrown under the bus by the management.

Under the law of vicarious liability your employer is responsible for what you do on the job. He has given his position on firearms in the workplace and you alone are choosing to violate it. Should you take action, even though it saves the day, you would/could be held criminally and civilly liable. The claim of well I never signed the booklet probably would not cut it.

Yeah if he just tries to head of the robbery they probably would. Regardless of that though if someone has a gun and is using it to commit a crime he has good claim to fear for his life. Now that doesnt mean go all Rambo if they will just get the money and go. But id bet a dollar to a doughnut that given the opening and he defends his life and by product of that is the robbery is twarted the owner will be standing smiling beside him in the photo ops.
What the OP asks really cant be laid out for him here. Robber could shoot the first person he comes to to make his point and then all bets are off. To many variables to call here on a forum you cant know unless your faced with it. Inaction may be best. Instant and violent action may be. Depending on what hes facing.
There is a point sometimes when dead is dead and the legalities wont matter much after that. Given a choice of pushing up daisys or the owner being upset Ill upset the owner every time.

edit sorry bad comparison since we now know Rambo is actually anti gun and a pacifist. Dirty Harry yeah thats better

[Once]

As long as they take the money and run don't do anything,but if they start herding everybody into the back I'm assuming it's to execute us,If It's me as soon as they leave me an opening I will react swiftly with maximum violence

Yep. I agree, let them have anything they want until this happens. From most of the videos I've seen the criminal comes rushing in as fast as they can unless you can see them coming in and be ready I would do what they want.

[diver1102]

This senerio was covered by my ccw instructor who was an active duty county sheriff and he said let them have the $. If he was off duty he would even let them go and get a good discription for the on duty cops. Most restraunts make enough that losing a days take isn't going to bankrupt them. And I agree with many of the other posters. You are walking a fine line carrying when your handbook says not to. Reguardless if your imediate manager approves or not.
Stay safe and carry on.

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