At the Seven Eleven
This is a discussion on At the Seven Eleven within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by falkon
That is what I have always thought I would do in that situation. I made the decision a long time ...
October 30th, 2006 07:39 AM
You need to have you mind made up before you ever set foot into the store. If he's threatening another person with a firearm, it's gonna be lights out for him. This sort of criminal deserves nothing more than to bleed out in the street and cry for his mother with his last breath.
Originally Posted by falkon
Those who would victimize and endanger innocent people for a few bucks in a cash register or for millions in a bank deserve the same fate.
I'll take a .45 and a large side of JHPs, please.
October 30th, 2006 08:42 AM
Wow , im surprised by how many would not take immediate action ! Im glad im not a clerk in a convienece store !!!! I think Retsup99 said it best and i hope the next time i am in a FL 7-11 , that he's is the guy at the Slurpee machine ready to help out , if needed .
All i can say is , that if a BG pulls a gun on anyone while i am in a store , it is safe to assume that someone is probably going to die !!!!! I know who is my first choice on who that person is !!
I dont mean to sound Rambo'ish , but if i watched a human being(the clerk) die , because i was kneeling behind a display trying decide whats the best verbage to use , Im not sure how easy the rest of my life would be to live .
Last edited by speedlinehobbies; October 30th, 2006 at 08:53 AM.
Anyone make a IWB holster for my AR ??
October 30th, 2006 09:21 AM
I really liked Blackeagles "Please", I think I will try to remeber that if I am in that situation. I would draw ask him to drop his weapon and fire if he implies any theart.
October 30th, 2006 10:07 AM
Never happen. 7-11s are safe ever since they went to time lock safes. Now back to reality.
#5. Grab the weapon and inflict pain, lots of pain.
I remember the Portsmouth ABC store shooting. Shooter got lots of grief, but it all worked out in the end.
"Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18
Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
Paramedics With Guns Scare People!
October 30th, 2006 10:35 AM
Here is why it is important to access the situation. There are times where what you see and what is the reality of what is happening might not be the same thing. You may end up shooting the wrong person and it could cost you dearly. Here is an example:
There are three guys walking down the street. A stranger comes up to one of them with a knife and demands money. All three guys pull a knife on the stranger. The stranger puts away his knife and puts his hands up.
This is when you walk up and see three guys holding a knife on one guy. Your first thought is that the three guys must be the BG and the guy with his hands up must be the GG. They have knives and you have a gun. You could take all three out before they can get to you.
This is where what you see and what is reality are two different things.
Same players different situation:
One guy is walking down the street and three bullies come up to the guy and demands money. They threaten to beat him up if he doesn't comply. The one guy pulls a knife. The three guys put there hands up. This is when you come in. You see three guys with hands up and One guy with a knife. You could easily pull your gun and drop the guy with the knife.
What you saw and reality are different here.
Now back to 7-11. You see a guy pull a gun on the clerk and think it's a robbery. You pull your gun and kill the guy.
Later you find out the guy is married to the clerk and the money he was asking for was the rent money that she took out of his wallet. He is an abusive husband and was tired of her taking his money so he wanted to make a point and brought a gun to scare her.
You may have saved her life but she doesn't look at it that way. He has threatened her with a gun before but she is too in love to leave him.
Do you go to jail? That is not up to you anymore. You could have a DA who is up for re election or just doesn't like citizens with guns. You may find out every good deed doesn't go unpunished.
Ok, OK, that story could be far fetched.
Here is another sense of reality you can't predict. What if the BG who has a gun at the clerk has an accomplice who is in the same isle as you. He staked out the place and signaled to the other guy when it was ok to come in. You shoot his friend and he comes up behind you and takes you out.
This is why I will access the situation and what's around BEFORE I would just shoot who I think is the BG.
October 30th, 2006 01:33 PM
Originally Posted by Maverick7340
Well, life is a risk, isn't it? There have been more than 1 undercover officer shot while holding a suspect at gunpoint. Pulling a gun is a risk, and it's a risk I hope all carry permit holders accept. You are risking your safety, your freedom, and your sanity if you pull the trigger.
Essentially you are trading a probable tragedy (your death or the death of an innocent) for the possibility of serious consequences (jail, shot by a cop, death). It's a crappy deal but it's better than having no choice.
October 30th, 2006 03:43 PM
Well, what about this situation. Same store, BG, and clerk. You don't want to give away your position and the BG is holding that gun like he really is going to shoot. You pull your weapon but you now see that the clerk is RIGHT in front of the BG. Do you point the gun down and shoot the BG down his lower spine? Do you point the gun up and blow his brains out? Or do you just point straight and hope that the clerk doesnt' get hit? I know its a dumb question, but I had to know.
October 30th, 2006 09:32 PM
I think Maverick is completely and totally accurate with what he has said.
Sometimes you see things with blinders on, b/c you want to do the right thing, or maybe you have never been in this position before, or whatever the case may be.
The first thing you need to do, is take cover, survey your surroundings for accomplices and really "see" what is going down.
I would like to believe this is what I would do in said situation. Not quite sure how you can hold a gun like you are going to use it, is any different than holding it normally, but unless the BG was getting to the point of actually using his weapon, I'm behind cover, surveying everything and everyone around me, but still maintain a clear shot, in case the BG does decide to sling some lead.
I have read a few stories of good people trying to do the right thing, getting shot b/c they were too focused on the immediate threat and never saw the 2nd or 3rd BG come up on them and shoot them.
Always have to be aware of what's going on 24/7.
It's not polite to call people name's, you idiot!
October 31st, 2006 12:57 PM
I found a video that goes along with what Maverick is talking about. Watch the video carefully and you'll be surprised in the ending. But when you first watch it, "assess" the situation. This video is from www.dumpalink.com I hope you like it. Here's the link -->Store Robbery
October 31st, 2006 02:22 PM
October 31st, 2006 04:41 PM
October 31st, 2006 04:50 PM
Great discussion! I guess I would be inclined to go to condition 1, back away from the perp and hope I'm ready for whatever happens to happen.
I'm a child of the 60's, but I got over it.
October 31st, 2006 05:56 PM
In good ole Fla... He's committing a forcible felony, I've got a free ticket to hose him down. Which I would do without saying a thing ( ok, maybe as I am shooting.. just to make sure I look good for the camera )..
Once he starts shooting, you never know what his next action is. Eliminate witnesses ? As the scenario is described, I don't think you'll have long before being discovered, and then it's you trying to draw, versus the BG with gun in hand. Surprise is your biggest weapon.
If there IS someone else, I'd have to decide AFTER taking care of the primary threat.
Action #1 :Make sure the BG isn't getting back up.
Action #2 :Assume a defensive posture while telling the clerk to dial 911.
October 31st, 2006 09:08 PM
Roger that, then maybe a #4 again if #1 is not to my liking after the first few #4's!
Originally Posted by retsupt99
In all seriousness, once you start ordering him/her to cease and desist you have already lost your element of surprise and you have no idea how he will react. From the moment his gun was drawn, you are in danger. Stop the threat...period. No game playing, no trying to talk them down, get it done and quick. Then reholster your weapon, call 911, call a lawyer(if you remembered to put the number in your wallet or cell), wait for law enforcement to arrive and follow their instructions.
As for taking the #1 route first...how long do you wait and see? After the clerk is dead? After he's already shot the clerk and is pointing at you? By then it's too late. I don't know about you, but I'm not sure I could live with myself if i played out #1 and someone else died and me knowing full well I had the element of surprise and could have ended it. The only #1's I'll be doing is after a #4.
October 31st, 2006 09:47 PM
I might be the minority here, but I am a firm believer in "no good deed goes unpunished". I saw someone else wrote it, too.
In my opinion, I would try to blend in and head toward an area of the store, where I could quietly survey the situation. If I could, I would try to reach for my cellphone before reaching for my gun. A simple 911 call could save a lot of people a lot of headaches. If I really felt threatened for my OWN life, I would get the gun out. I would only shoot if I knew the person was going to threaten me.
There are way too many unknowns in the world to try and understand the intricacies of why he was there, etc. Is he a friend joking around with his buddy working there? You never know. I try not to get involved with other people's business and try not to jump to conclusions with assumptions!
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