Halloween Costumes Scenerio
This is a discussion on Halloween Costumes Scenerio within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Foxnews this morning reported a guy dressed up as Bin Ladin, with fake weapons and decided that he would try to scare passing motorists.
November 1st, 2006 07:33 AM
Halloween Costumes Scenerio
Foxnews this morning reported a guy dressed up as Bin Ladin, with fake weapons and decided that he would try to scare passing motorists.
The question is: What do you do when their is some idiot beside the rode when there is an idiot with what looks like realistic weapons, at night including a toy that looks like a Kalishnakov? What if there is no way you can turn around?
I will admit, my biggest consern/fear is some kid with a BB gun, or a toy or a non-firing replica.
"[T]he people are not to be disarmed of their weapons.
They are left in full possession of them."
Zacharia Johnson (speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention,25 June 1778)"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
November 1st, 2006 07:42 AM
In America, we are all free to be as stupid as we like, and thank God for that.
Then on the other hand, the consequences of our stupidity is nature's way of thinning out the population to get rid of the more stupid of us.
That's the "Darwin Effect".
In the situation mentioned, it is "possible" that one stupid person may induce another stupid person to commit a violent act therefore putting the 1rst stupid person in the ground and the other in jail for a considerable time thereby taking said 2nd stupid person out of our way as well.
So what you do is stay away from both stupid people and let Darwin sort it out.
November 1st, 2006 08:46 AM
A poster who is local to me related on another forum of an incident last year where he was confronted by a teenager with a fake gun. Of course, the orange tip was covered with a black marker. Anyway, the kid ran in front of his jeep with the toy gun, and our hero bailed out of his jeep, drawing his own (real) piece on the way out and threw down on the kid, at which point the kid proceeded to drop the gun and un-ass the area in a vehicle and the good guy got his tag number.
Police later found the little ******* at his his home later and confronted him with the story and the toy gun. They also remembered to advise the kid that our hero would have been fully within his rights and gotten off scot-free if he had plugged him and let him bleed out on the street.
That's a long way of saying that I would try to differentiate between a real gun and a fake gun being used...that's for later.
I'll take a .45 and a large side of JHPs, please.
November 1st, 2006 09:43 AM
Halloween is scary stuff. I don't even participate anymore. My wife and I crawled up on the couch, locked the house up, turned off all the lights, and watched some t.v. last night. I don't go out and don't leave stuff out. I see all the kids walking by and feel kinda bad, but all it takes is a few stories like this and someone will wind up dead!
About 6 years back someone came to the door of my neighbors' house on Halloween night and rang the doorbell. The elderly lady opened the door with candy. Three home invaders burst in the house . They tied her and her husband up and stole all the crap they could get their hands on.
I just stay in and then I don't have the problems
However, if I had to go out and something like this happened, I would probably try to recognize it is Halloween and not overreact. When you take the whole situation in context a reasonable person would probably not open fire on Bin Laden in the streets of America on Halloween.
Now if this happened a different time of year (say June), I would probably keep driving and call 911. How would you pull over and have the time to pull out your pea shooter when a guy has an AK47 and is already able to shoot (i.e. standing up, pointing at you, and not unbuckling seat belts)?
Now if it really was Bin Laden, I would try to get that SOB so I could claim my $27 million dollar reward
November 1st, 2006 10:10 AM
Nobody knows its a toy, and the fool's manifest intent (as perceived on-the-instant by a passing motorist) indicates otherwise. Such fools will get a measured result from those around them, including from the responding police officers. Folks are taken down every day, due to such stupid actions with apparently real firearms. It's not a shield. Such a gun, in actuality, is an incredibly serious threat to one's life. A.O.J.
Originally Posted by Dakotaranger
Someone out in public with manifest intentions will be dealt with in the manner he has requested. If he points a gun at others and acts as if it's loaded and he's about to shoot, then folks will have the right to defend themselves (given the "reasonable man" standard and his manifest intent) ... even if it ultimately turns out the fool had merely a "toy" gun. If police come up to him and he's doing those things, I think he'll be having an all-expense paid trip to the local three-squares-a-day facility. Were such a person to hop out into the roadway and aim guns at me, I will defend myself. Even if that involves using my 3600-lb vehicle in a manner not otherwise listed in the owner's manual.
Last edited by ccw9mm; November 1st, 2006 at 10:16 AM.
November 1st, 2006 10:15 AM
We still hand out candy...but I let my wife open the door and dole out candy to the little munchkins while I am sitting down across the room with my concealed .45 very, very close at hand. Also, my wife opens a small door window before opening the main door. Works pretty well, although our neighborhood doesn't get many trick or treaters....just had a single one last night!
November 1st, 2006 10:16 AM
You hit on an extremely important point that we all need to keep in mind, and that is the notion of "context".
Originally Posted by walther1
There is an excellent book by Gavin DeBecker called "The Gift of Fear" where he covers in some detail about the psychology of both predators AND their intended victims (us).
But he also makes a lot of sense when he discusses "context" of potential threatening situations where a person who acts a certain way in one situation is totally UNthreatening but if a person acts that same way in different situation, then they should be considered as a possible threat and carefully monitored.
It's a great book for those who carry concealed and covers a lot of things that most of us never think about.
November 1st, 2006 10:21 AM
Originally Posted by Walther1
Absolutely. If this encounter were to occur on a residential road with other folks milling around in costume, that's one thing. If this same thing were to occur out on the highway somewhere, or on a lonely road well away from anywhere, it would come down to the manifest intent. Halloween evening or not. (Lots of crimes occur that specific evening because folks have let their guard down, in that it offers up more opportunities to get beyond the first line of defenses expressly because of the context. People acting in a threatening manner should fully expect to be treated accordingly given the context they're creating. Two way street.)
Originally Posted by CDH
November 1st, 2006 10:44 AM
The thing about a toy gun is you don't know its not a toy until you are on the groung bleeding. Toy or real all treated the same as far as I am concerned.
November 1st, 2006 04:26 PM
COPS are entitled to shoot kids who have toy guns pointed at them, and while it often is said to mess them up psychologically, they are not held accountable for the mistake, since it's not possible for them to know.
So if cops are not blamed if they shoot someone who has a realistic looking gun, why should civilians be?
November 1st, 2006 06:43 PM
The rest of the story...
The guy in the Bin Laden costume is a political activist. According to news reports (see drudgereport.com) he was protesting a local/state tax increase. While his handgun was a fake, it was enough for passing motorists to notify police. He was spotted holding fake dynamite by witnesses.
Police reported that they ordered him several times to drop the weapon before he complied.
This is the guy that leaked info on W's DUI arrest in Maine. He gave it to the press during the 2000 campaign.
The guy was quoted as saying he must have struck a post-9/11 nerve.
No, I think the "dynamite" and the "gun" did it for him.
November 2nd, 2006 12:33 AM
Too stupid to comply with a cop's order, especially involving what may look to the officer to be a real gun, even if it is fake... The cop shoulda dropped him. Loser. Woulda served him right.
November 8th, 2006 03:42 AM
I would also like to point out that even with an orange tip on the gun that they would be treated the same. There have been several incidents in law enforcement where a criminal painted the tip orange to make it look fake. The LEOs would let their guard down and get shot. Just because it has an orange tip doesn't mean that it's not a threat and not real. It means it's an indicator that it may be fake. Either way, it's treated the same if you are carrying it or displaying it in a threatening manner or in defiance of public safety.
Originally Posted by vanilla_gorilla
It should also be noted that the USA is the only ones that have such a requirement for the orange tip. Airsoft guns (as they're correctly called) were essentially started in China due to the disarmament of their people. Many of the first airsoft guns came from China and it was a US import restriction that it must have a "blazen orange tip". Many of these were plastic, removable "O" ring covers that could easily be taken off (I know, I have one). There is no requirement for imported airsoft guns to be painted orange, just that the tip be orange.
Airsoft guns shoot plastic versions of BBs at (usually) a much lower velocity and usually are made to have the same weight and manipulability as their real counterparts. Airsoft guns are a really good way to practice force-on-force scenarios in a fun way as well.
More information on airsoft guns can be found here.
Last edited by soundwave; November 8th, 2006 at 03:49 AM.
November 16th, 2006 10:10 AM
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