"Aggravated Robbery" - Xavier University Parking Lot

This is a discussion on "Aggravated Robbery" - Xavier University Parking Lot within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Read the short report first: 31913 9 PM, Student Robbed in the A Parking Lot This week while having lunch with a coworker, I was ...

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Thread: "Aggravated Robbery" - Xavier University Parking Lot

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    Member Array blanco64's Avatar
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    "Aggravated Robbery" - Xavier University Parking Lot

    Read the short report first: 31913 9 PM, Student Robbed in the A Parking Lot

    This week while having lunch with a coworker, I was telling him about the drills we had done the night before in Krav Maga. He said "Oh yeah, I meant to tell you. One of the guys in my masters class showed up to class the other night with 3 inches of stitches across his forehead."

    Apparently he was leaving the university a little after 9:00 PM, walking to his car, and noticed two teenagers flanking him in the parking lot. He started maneuvering to keep them from getting behind him. Once they were within range one of them pulled out a section of two-by-four and struck him across the forehead. They took his iPad, cell phone, and wallet(?) and took off running. I don't know whether or not he attempted to fight back.

    I could have put this in any of a number of sections here, as there are multiple issues:

    2nd Amendment: Yet another instance where "gun free zones" turn us into victims. In Ohio, no gun signs carry the weight of law, so if you're a law-abiding citizen you're "ripe for picking" for any activities like this while walking from class to your car (assuming you left your weapon on your car).

    Need for self-defense capabilities beyond our firearm: It's not always going to be available to us, so we need to have other ways to protect ourselves.

    I've thought about this quite a bit and thought about the different options:

    - Run? Even keeping in good shape, at 48 years old there's a good chance two teenagers could catch up with me, although it might make if more effort for them than they're willing to expend. If I were still dressed in my work clothes (office professional), the shoes I'd be wearing wouldn't be ideal for running in. Maybe I should change that?

    - Ask them what they want before they get in striking range? If I'm in a place where I do have my firearm, do I reach for where I keep it so that it's obvious to them I'm armed (even if I don't make it visible yet)? If they continue to close, tell them to keep back? If they ignore me, at what point do I either draw (if armed), or attack (if unarmed)?

    - Forcefully tell them to keep back? My Krav Maga instructor recommends yelling at them to keep back, both from a "command" presence, and as a way to attract attention if anyone else is in the area. He also says men have a problem doing this because they feel like it makes them look scared, but it's actually supposed to be fairly effective. If they continue closing within range at that point, it's on.

    - Maneuver a few times so that it's obvious they are trying to get to you? At that point it becomes pretty clear that they're "closing" on you. I think you'd be clear to engage at least hand-to-hand at that point if they get within range. If you're someplace where you do have your firearm, at what point do you either draw or at least make sure they know your armed?

    By the way, I love how Xavier posts this in the "Safety" section of their website, but the school's posted policy is no weapons are allowed on campus to defend yourself with.

    What are everyone's thoughts?

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    After being smacked across the forehead with a 2x4, I doubt there was a lot of fight left in your buddy. I'm glad he survived with only stitches. Sometimes all defenses will fail.
    pittypat21 and archer51 like this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Had a situation much like that happen to me, but I was able to stop the attack before it got to be hands-on.

    It was also a two-on-one assault, just like the one you described. The two split up, trying to flank me. Saw them at ~30yds or more, in a dark parking lot. At ~8yds distance, I drew and suggested to the lead guy he should rethink their position, at which point they fled. They were clearly rapidly coming to me, no question of that, and the look in the lead guy's eyes told all, as did the instant, coordinated break-off by both guy #1 and his flanking cohort #2. I hate to think what might have happened had either had a 2x4, knives or guns.

    What are my thoughts? BE ARMED, ALWAYS. Particularly if you're going to be out and about solo, at places where you're outside of shouting/visual distance from many others. Consider suitable clothing/shoes to support defense if you find it necessary. Not all "office" type shoes need be awful for running, defense. If out at night, consider packing an excruciatingly-bright defensive flashlight. Particularly consider doing so if you're unable to carry a firearm due to work policy or statutes. The thing about such a light is that it can scream "Gun!" to many cretins, despite your not having one on you. All the better to blind the assailant(s), too.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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    Glad everything worked out but play it safe, if you are carrying in a legal area, and if you have to brandish your weapon, call 911 and make a report IMMEDIATELY. Think what could happen if on the perps makes that first call and says he was the victim of an attempted robbery.
    Last edited by Buckeyenomad; March 29th, 2013 at 11:23 AM. Reason: specify you are in an area legal to carry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buckeyenomad View Post
    Glad everything worked out but play it safe, if you are carrying in a legal area, and if you have to brandish your weapon, call 911 and make a report IMMEDIATELY. Think what could happen if on the perps makes that first call and says he was the victim of an attempted robbery.
    This! ^^^^^^^^^^^ Don't "brandish" if you can help it. The scum could turn it around on you. Get out in front of the incident first. Let police and/or authorities know of the incident so you don't get picked up as the bad guy. A move toward your weapon in a fairly obvious way give them pause, without revealing anything that could come back on you. Avoid, avoid avoid! Be aware and stay out of places where this stuff can happen if at all possible. Be careful!

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    If unarmed and outnumbered, I will try to make my escape straight through one of them.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

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    The neighborhood around XU is not a particularly good one, as is common in urban college campuses.

    Unfortunately it campuses are specifically gun free zones, and criminals know it.
    ep1953 and JDE101 like this.
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    In addition to my gun, when out at night I carry pepper spray and a 600 lumen flash light with strobe mode ($72).

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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeye .45 View Post
    The neighborhood around XU is not a particularly good one, as is common in urban college campuses.

    Unfortunately it campuses are specifically gun free zones, and criminals know it.
    "The" neighborhood? Perps could've been from Norwood, Avondale, or most likely Evanston. Clifton, around UC, sees this kind of crime even more often.
    "Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company." ~ Mark Twain

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    Senior Member Array velo99's Avatar
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    I agree with Mike. Pick one & run straight at him before the other can get there to uneven the odds. Pepper spray or a baton @ short range in the fishbowl.
    troutkiller likes this.
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    That is why I am never unarmed and dont go places I absolutely cant be armed except the justice center which has armed security all over the place. And only then to renew my drivers licence. Otherwise Im armed 24/7 365
    " It is sad governments are chief'ed by the double tongues." quote Ten Bears Movie Outlaw Josie Wales

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    Just coz your trained doesnt make you invincible. My suggestion, train harder.
    The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools.--->Herbert Spencer

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    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xsigma40cal View Post
    Just coz your trained doesnt make you invincible. My suggestion, train harder.
    And learn to duck
    " It is sad governments are chief'ed by the double tongues." quote Ten Bears Movie Outlaw Josie Wales

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    Knife,get inside his swing so the 2x4 is ineffective,gut him like a carp
    pittypat21 and bigdogtx like this.
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    It is interesting to read through some of these scenarios and learn from those with more knowledge than I at this point. Just a couple of my thoughts, and one question. First I am not an especially big guy and I am almost 60, so that even if I am correct in feeling that I am in excellent physical condition for my age I am unlikely to be able to outrun or prevail in a physical confrontation with even one, let alone two, stronger younger aggressors. That's why I conceal carry.

    I also carry a portable air horn clipped to my my belt. I figure if I am feeling threatened by a situation setting that off is likely to deter any attacker while leaving no harm and no foul if I was just being unnecessarily cautious.

    Regarding the suggestion of pepper spray, I see the advantage of it being non-lethal. So nothing like the legal repercussions of using a firearm. But how effective is this unless one is able to actually direct the spray into the attackers eyes?

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