Way Outnumbered

Way Outnumbered

This is a discussion on Way Outnumbered within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This is my first real post here. The situation below happened to one of my roommates this past weekend, and I was curious to see ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array BigBird451's Avatar
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    Way Outnumbered

    This is my first real post here. The situation below happened to one of my roommates this past weekend, and I was curious to see what you guys have to say about it.

    This past Friday night, my roommate (lets call him Joe) is walking back from a friend's house after dark. His is accompanied by 3 female friends. As they are walking down the sidewalk, a group of 18-20 college-aged guys are behind them and gaining at a non-threatening pace. Being polite, the group of 4 steps into a single-file line to allow the larger group to pass. As they pass Joe, one of the guys sucker punches him in the temple. As Joe rolls with the punch, several others move in and strike him several times in the head and upper body. Two of the girls were also hit, one in the stomach, one it the head. The attackers then simply leave. Nothing was taken. It is my understanding a police report was filed, but I doubt it will be any use since the description of the attackers reads something along the lines of "18-20 males, African-American, ages 18-24, between 5'6 and 6'4, wearing jeans and dark jackets."

    Everyone is ok physically, and they seem to be in good shape psychologically. Joe does not carry. My question is, what would you have done? Joe was way outnumbered, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if one of the thugs had a firearm.


  2. #2
    Member Array rutcrazed's Avatar
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    Hard to say I am not Joe. Also I was not there.
    I Love Guns!!!

  3. #3
    Member Array Wreckr's Avatar
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    Nothing he can do without a gun. If he fought back he would have been kicked into a coma. Just not worth it. I've seen it happen in Oakland. Started as a one on one fist fight, guy KO's the other, then 3 of his buddies corner him against a fence and beat him bad. The guy's friend tries to help and gets hit in the head with a bottle. It's now 4 on 2. Then the KO'd guy gets back into it. 5 on 2. Nobody could stop this fight due to a fence, then a raging creek, and another fence. Went on for minutes until 4 huge men broke it up. Bad deal when outnumbered and unarmed
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    Member Array beni's Avatar
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    From the way it was described I would have attempted to do a few things differently.

    First I would have tried to avoid a group of 18 to 20 males between the ages of 18-24 as best I could and not end up in the middle of that group.

    Second If I ended up in the position that your friend was in with multiple people surrounding me I would try to get out of the center as quickly as possible. Krav Maga teaches a technique called "stacking". the goal of stacking is to get yourself outside of the circle that multiple attackers have created around you and have all your attackers in your field of vision. If you go hands on with one person use that person as a shield between you and the other attackers to keep distance between them and yourself (while you are delivering defensive strikes against that person). Once distance is created I would try to run away If the group pursues then my ccw comes out. If I'm able to stack the attackers and get outside of the circle but my companion is still getting attacked by multiple people then I'll draw on them. SC has Castle Doctrine/Stand Your Ground law and I will protect myself and my companions to the best of my ability.

    I have a feeling though that if I and any companion were able to get away and outside the circle they created, then the attack would stop as the group seems to just be looking for an opportunity to hit somebody and probably won't put up with the effort to chase us.
    Last edited by beni; April 10th, 2013 at 07:33 PM. Reason: corrected spelling
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    Member Array Cheef's Avatar
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    That sounds like a game that originated in East Saint Louis Il.
    They call it the ''Knock out Game''
    Seems to be pretty popular in East Saint Louis and a few people have been very badly hurt.
    Nice ''Game" don't you think?
    Description of the suspects fits right into the profile of the ""Game"" players.

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    Member Array Shrike6's Avatar
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    I never let people come up behind me. If there is someone behind me, I'm turning to look, moving to distance, possibly by crossing and recrossing the street. I may enter a building if there are people are inside. I make it crystal clear that I am aware and prepared.
    My wife and I were in Germany, visiting Stuttgart, coming back from dinner, when we noticed were were being followed by a bunch of salty looking dudes who were watching us in the restaurant. They were following, we crossed the street, they crossed the street. We recrossed,they recrossed the street. Knowing they were going to roll us, i looked around, and luckily saw two Polizi, carrying MP5s. I walked up to them,and explained what was happening. They both smiled and told us to continue on our way back to our hotel. I wouldn't have wanted to be those dudes when the Polizi got to them.
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    Distinguished Member Array shadowwalker's Avatar
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    There was a 4 that was going to try that on me but a old nam vet showed up to talk with me and the party was over they did not like the odds

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    Member Array BigBird451's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies guys. We live in the area around the University of Cincinnati, so passing large groups of people is something that really can't be avoided. However, his SA certainly could have been better. Lets say you were carrying and this happens to you. Do you draw? My biggest concern at that point would be trying to keep an eye on that many people. One dude sees you draw and decides to do the same and you might not notice in time

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    Member Array Wreckr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheef View Post
    That sounds like a game that originated in East Saint Louis Il.
    They call it the ''Knock out Game''
    Seems to be pretty popular in East Saint Louis and a few people have been very badly hurt.
    Nice ''Game" don't you think?
    Description of the suspects fits right into the profile of the ""Game"" players.
    That's a cowardly game! I believe if you think your tough go to the boxing or MMA gym nearby and find out.
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    Member Array Shrike6's Avatar
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    They would have to work to get anywhere close to me. By then, absent any other alternatives, I would draw, aim, and give them a short chance to turn and run.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBird451 View Post
    Thanks for the replies guys. We live in the area around the University of Cincinnati, so passing large groups of people is something that really can't be avoided. However, his SA certainly could have been better. Lets say you were carrying and this happens to you. Do you draw? My biggest concern at that point would be trying to keep an eye on that many people. One dude sees you draw and decides to do the same and you might not notice in time
    My biggest concern would be my impending death, so yes, he should probably decide to do the same.
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    Member Array 91wm6's Avatar
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    Yes I would have drawn.
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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Good time for the Colt to start bucking.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  14. #14
    Member Array BigBird451's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wreckr View Post
    Nothing he can do without a gun. If he fought back he would have been kicked into a coma. Just not worth it. I've seen it happen in Oakland. Started as a one on one fist fight, guy KO's the other, then 3 of his buddies corner him against a fence and beat him bad. The guy's friend tries to help and gets hit in the head with a bottle. It's now 4 on 2. Then the KO'd guy gets back into it. 5 on 2. Nobody could stop this fight due to a fence, then a raging creek, and another fence. Went on for minutes until 4 huge men broke it up. Bad deal when outnumbered and unarmed
    I very much agree. Most guys around here say he should've fought back as hard as he could. But to me, it sounds like the guys were just out to blow off steam. Picking a fight would have just added fuel to that fire. I believe they would have raised the level of violence if he agitated one of them by hitting them back. I'm by no means advocating letting yourself take a beating, but you gotta know when you're beat and swallow some pride
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  15. #15
    Member Array Cheef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wreckr View Post
    That's a cowardly game! I believe if you think your tough go to the boxing or MMA gym nearby and find out.
    From what I understand tough has nothing to do with it.
    Object is to knock out an unsuspecting victim with one shot.
    There are a few videos out that show the game being played.
    Surveilance cameras have caught it a few times.
    darbo likes this.

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