I almost pulled my gun tonight

This is a discussion on I almost pulled my gun tonight within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Tonight I came the closest I ever have to pulling my gun and shooting in defense. I am glad to report that I kept as ...

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Thread: I almost pulled my gun tonight

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    I almost pulled my gun tonight

    Tonight I came the closest I ever have to pulling my gun and shooting in defense. I am glad to report that I kept as level a head as possible during the event, realizing I may have to draw my gun but only as a last resort and the way things transpired I did not have to pull or use my gun.

    Because I didn't pull my gun and use it, I am at home typing this here and not being interviewed by LEO downtown. And I will not forever be that guy in the neighborhood.

    Long story short, a known psycho neighborhood dog got loose and attacked me but more so attacked my dog on our nightly walk tonight. The dog bore down on what is his pelvis/inner thigh, and I had to beat the other dog to get him to release my dog. When the dog didn't release my dog after the first few punches it did cross my mind to pull my LCP and shoot the other dog until it released my dog and the threat was ended. I am glad I didn't. My dog is nicked up but so far ok, he may show more injury overnight. My dog is almost 13 years old and getting to be pretty decrepit already without being attacked. I am not injured.

    the long version

    We were walking our regular route and were a block away from home. There is a Golden Retriever on that block that goes ape anytime it sees another dog. We have never come close to it because it goes nuts even blocks away if it can see any other dogs. It is a dog that every time I see the dog on a walk with its master, I put a hand in my pocket and grip whichever gun I'm carrying knowing that if it gets away from its owner, he will be on us like white on rice. I walk on the other side of the street from where this dog lives just to give me more space to react, just in case.

    So there we are on the other side of the street when I see this dog hard charging from the side we're walking on (he lives on the other side remember?) and is upon us in an instant. I'd say 2 seconds, so not much time to react. The dog attacks my old dog (almost 13 years old) and he falls to the ground and the attacking dog clamps down on his pelvic area. I know that my dog cannot defend himself properly or run away and as much as I know that it is a bad idea to get in-between two dogs, I had to. I knew not to pull on the attacking dog because it would only cause my dog more injury. So...

    So with my left hand I grabbed at the dog's collar and started punching with my right fist. I don't know how many punches it took, I think three but it may have been more, I really don't know. I didn't have an adrenaline dump and its not like time slowed down for me but I really have no clue how many times I hit this dog to get him to release my dog. The full attack probably only took 15 seconds, 30 at most.

    When I first hit the dog and it didn't release mine I did think that I may have to shoot this dog if it won't stop attacking. Luckily, a few punches to the top of the dog's head and the dog released my dog. Fully gripping its collar I violently pulled it away from my dog and thrust it to the ground and held it by the collar forcing it by the back of the neck and body into the grass. Once it didn't have access to my dog the psycho dog became very compliant and was submissive to me and though tense was not barking, growling or showing any more hyper aggression. I yelled, "Whose dog is this?"

    While I held the dog I realized that my dog would be ok but maybe this dog will attack me and there is still a chance that I may have to pull my gun and shoot it. A neighbor came out and took the other dog and another neighbor lady came out and took full control of the dog and took it back onto her property. The second lady is watching the dog while its owners are on vacation and she knows its issues and tried to prevent it from getting out. But, it was able to open her door to get out of her house and attack us. We looked over my dog, she apologized profusely, we exchanged info in case of vet bills etc, it was as cordial as possible, we were both reasonable and emotions didn't flare. And here is why...

    I didn't open fire in my neighborhood and make a bad incident even worse. The following are my take aways from the incident.


    1. I didn't care about caliber or trigger style of the gun I was carrying. All I cared about was that I did have a gun to go to if needed and was glad to have it.
    I normally pocket carry my LCR but the pants I wore today dictated to having just the LCP in my pocket.

    2. I'm glad I carry with a round chambered because it would have been impossible to rack the slide of any gun and get a good shot off before this dog was on us and attacking. If I had to chamber a round while intervening between the two dogs, I would have had to let go of the attacking dog and give it a greater chance of injuring my dog while I rack the slide or give it an opportunity to attack me. You will not always have a free hand when you're defending yourself.

    3. It's a good idea to carry a non-lethal alternative, but I never even thought to go for my OC spray during the incident.


    4. Shoot your gun and take a life as a very last resort.

    I could have been a hothead and immediately pulled my gun and tried to shoot the dog when it first came at us. A. It moved too quickly to really get a good draw and aim and B. it was in the middle of a neighborhood and every round you shoot has a lawyer attached to it. When I was physically confronting the dog I could have pulled the gun and probably be justified in shooting it point blank, but...I would have to deal with LEO. I may have my gun confiscated. I may incur legal fees to justify my use of a deadly weapon. I would forever be that guy who shot a dog in the neighborhood, even if everyone knows that the dog was crazy, I am still that guy. I would open up a whole can of worms that would best be avoided.

    If the dog hadn't released, I would have shot. But I'm glad to have kept my head and not immediately and irrevocably changed my life from this night forward.
    "Was there no end to the conspiracy of irrational prejudice against Red Ryder and his peacemaker?"

    Revolvers, “more elegant weapons for a more civilized age.”

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  3. #2
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    Glad this worked out as best it could. Be sure to report that dog and the owners to animal control!

    Four legged foes are often overlooked. Dude I know was out for a walk with his small breed dog and a pit bull came out of nowhere and attacked. He lifted his dog off the ground and the attacking dog would not let go. So now he's got about 50-60 pounds pounds of viscous muscle and jaws ripping into his dog and, who knows, maybe into him in a split second or less. He was definitely in fear for his life. He pulled out his .45 and fired, striking the dog just below the ribs. The attacking dog released and walked off. It was later found a few blocks away, dead. He call the cops, they took the report, looked at his carry license, and basically said "Clean shoot, glad you're okay." They did not take his gun, and even returned is .45 brass, saying "I believe this belongs to you." His dog survived.

    Don't know how it would have gone down in your neck of the woods, but a Golden Retriever is a big dog with a lot of teeth, and it only takes one to rip open your jugular... 50/50 I would have fired if it was ripping my dog to shreds in front of me - not necessarily to protect my dog, but to save myself.

    Bottom line you are home tonight and you and your dog are safe. Can't argue with those results.
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    1. All guns are always loaded.
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    Member Array GetSmith's Avatar
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    Glad it turned out all right for you. I hope your dog makes a full recovery.

    This is a prime example of why to carry a form of non lethal force. Could be a homeless person, teenage punk, or animal that puts you at risk but not enough to warrant lethal force. I think you made the right decision not to pull your gun. Blunty put one persons property attacked your property. It's better to error on the side of caution and not be labeled "that guy".

    Now if any animal attacks any person then it's immediately time to dispense lethal force. Again I'm glad your telling your story here and not at PD.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rammerjammer View Post
    If the dog hadn't released, I would have shot. But I'm glad to have kept my head and not immediately and irrevocably changed my life from this night forward.
    You're presuming shooting an attacking dog equates to irrevocable changes and has a legal cost associated with it. It needn't, if the stop is clean and justifiable, and if you live in a community that is fairly clear-headed about this sort of thing.

    Still, you and your family members are still standing, and you didn't need to resort to ultimate force to stop the attack. Glad you're all okay.

    Time to press hard with animal control and leverage your local ordinances regarding nuisance/violent animals, I think.

    And probably time to carry a good-sized can of bear/pepper spray for such attacks that might well happen in the future.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    Now that its been mentioned I probably should report the dog to animal control.
    Betty likes this.
    "Was there no end to the conspiracy of irrational prejudice against Red Ryder and his peacemaker?"

    Revolvers, “more elegant weapons for a more civilized age.”

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    Member Array blanco64's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing. Some good things to think about.

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    I hate to see an elderly/weaker animal get dominated like that, no doubt you rescued your pet, and you didn't run through your options doing it. I think you used your head and stayed out of a legal tangle. I'd like to think that the dog and/or owner learned a good lesson? I'm not too hopeful though.

    I think a nice slender oak walking stick might be a good option for you and your dog.
    WHEC724 likes this.
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

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    Distinguished Member Array mr.stuart's Avatar
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    Carry a big hard stick,this has never failed me
    Hodad likes this.
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    When the past smothers the present, there is only desperation. When the future absorbs the present, life stands still. In either case a decision must be made because you only live now and you are only what you are now.

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    I always used to carry pepper spray when I walked my dog for the very reason you stated. Once I saw a Great Dane pickup a dog on a lease and shake it in its mouth and toss it out. Since then I always carried pepper spray. Then I got tired of incidents as you described and bought a house with a large corner lot with a wall all around it and put in a nice lanai to give my dogs shade along with a pair of doggie doors so they can come and go as they please. Now they do not get walked and are healthier for it. They exercise in the large yard but prefer the cool of air conditioning so they never bug us to go for walks. They are happy just being in the cool air laying on their mommy's lap. :)

    I probably would find it easier to shot a human than a dog. I have hunted humans but never dogs.
    The worst thing about growing old is that other men no longer see you as dangerous.

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    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Ever since I was simultaneously attacked by 2 pitbulls, I've not been much of a dog person. It's typically the irresponsible owner's fault more so than the dog. None the less, I've not underestimated dogs as a serious threat after that. I do care about animals, so I'm glad you didn't have to shoot it. I also carry pepper spray 24/7. Not sure if that would have done the trick or not, but it couldn't hurt to try when the dog crap is hitting the fan.
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    Good story, and I'm glad it turned out OK. I would suggest you take your dog to the vet to have him checked out and to be able to present the irresponsible owner with a financial penalty for his actions. Meanwhile, absolutely report the attack to your local animal control authorities. If the dog has a repeat offense, the owner will have been warned and the consequences will likely be more significant.

    I walk 4 of my 5 dogs frequently, and occasionally we're a 'target' for some aggressive dogs. I'm always armed, but I would still hate like heck to shoot a domestic animal, so I almost always carry pepper spray (Palm Defender) as an intermediate level of force. God forbid you find yourself in a similar situation again, but if you do I would direct some heavy punches of kicks at the ribcage - I think that's less robust than the head on most dogs.
    Stevew likes this.
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    Member Array 91wm6's Avatar
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    Good job op glad it worked out. Does anybody know where to hit a dog anatomy wise to be most effective? I would think hitting a dog in the skull would be painful.

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    Senior Member Array NH_Esau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rammerjammer View Post
    Now that its been mentioned I probably should report the dog to animal control.
    Yup. Dog needs to be put down.

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    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rammerjammer View Post
    Now that its been mentioned I probably should report the dog to animal control.
    You definitely want to do that. You need to establish a paper trail incase this happens again and you may not have the same options.
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
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    Member Array ZeBool's Avatar
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    I can understand not wanting to shoot. However, that 3 inch pocket knife that I am sure you were carrying would have worked nicely, if applied directly to the base of the skull.

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