April 26th, 2013 10:50 PM
A Defensive Scenario..
I was talking to my friend Joe yesterday about defensive scenario's & he brought up a interesting idea. The basis of the scenario was a typical bg attempting to mugg me. now at this point he mentioned to comply with the bg's demands in which I would pull my wallet & toss away from my immediate vinicitity as to make a distraction & give me distance between the bg & myself. At that point I would have pulled my firearm & demanded that the bg stop! hands! hands! If he didn't comply & continued to move towards me I would be forced to neutralize the threat. Personally I believe it would be a effective way of handling the situation. hbu? what are you're thoughs on this matter?
April 26th, 2013 10:55 PM
Ill pull something but it wont be my wallet
" It is sad governments are chief'ed by the double tongues." quote Ten Bears Movie Outlaw Josie Wales
April 26th, 2013 10:59 PM
Well the point is to make a effective distraction & distance myself from the bg, I don't know how nuts the said bg is as he could attemp to attack me so do you see my point now? on top of the fact I wouldn't want to have to take someone's life.
April 26th, 2013 11:05 PM
What is to prevent him from shooting you as you make demands? Action beats reaction every time.
Originally Posted by SUPERCHEFNICK
"If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
William T. Sherman
April 26th, 2013 11:05 PM
I am assuming the BG has a gun. I think if you are handing the BG your wallet with your weak hand, the distraction is accomplished the same.
I can't say anything about his shooting because it's not center mass, but something like this:
Gun Control works "Thank God for Guns" and Gun Control. - YouTube
I busted a mirror and got seven years bad luck, but my lawyer thinks he can get me five.
-- Steven Wright
1950 Colt .38 Police Positive Special
2013 SCCY 9mm CPX-2 Stainless Steel
US Army 1973-1977, 95B
April 26th, 2013 11:14 PM
That is true depending on the weapon it changes the scenario immediately. Now assuming he has a gun he already has the drop on me so I'm at quite a disadvantage here. My options are limited at that point, in which a effective strategy would benefit in this situation.
April 26th, 2013 11:51 PM
There are a number of ways to deal with this scenario, each one specific to the circumstances with respect to distance, availability , opportunity, and skill.
Drawing against the drop, a technique developed by a distinguished member here is a very feasible tactic. Another tactic may be to close with the mugger in close combat grappling.
Still yet another technique may be a per positioned pocket gun where you keep your wallet.
This type of senario requires more than just thought. It requires practicing multiple techniques for this scenario until they are ingrained.
Notwithstanding doing nothing, the most dangerous thing you can do is get your mind stuck on a one technique solution, for as surely as you do, it will screw you in the end.
Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.
April 26th, 2013 11:56 PM
Scenarios are somewhat like budgets..... they work great on paper..... Just saying.........
"One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
--Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney
Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791
and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."
April 27th, 2013 12:16 AM
Originally Posted by glockman10mm
What may seem like a good idea in thought might not work so well in reality. I would suggest practicing this scenario with your friend, see how he reacts when you toss a wallet, and practice drawing on him to see if it is plausable. Try other techniques. Just thinking about what you will do does not ingrain the muscle memory needed for you to react quick enough to be successful.
April 27th, 2013 07:26 AM
The best way to know if it works is to do it in a FOF scenario.
But if I was to be your BG in the scenario and you.....
.........I'd shoot you on the spot. But hey I'm a good guy at heart.
now at this point he mentioned to comply with the bg's demands in which I would pull my wallet & toss away from my immediate vinicitity as to make a distraction & give me distance between the bg & myself.
It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45
"Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes
April 27th, 2013 07:54 AM
Go do this scenario in a defined force on force setting with experienced FoF actors as bad guys and see how well you do with all the stuff you are writing about doing.
See where you glitch under pressure. Then train that out over and over and over again.
Find what works for you under a MUCH more "real" active FoF situation than in front of a computer, relaxed, sitting and what iffing.
Good Fof uses people with lots of experience and defined bad guy intentions that they stick to.
You will find your own way and what works for you by doing this. The instructors will help with your tactics and running different derivations on your scenario...like say throwing your wallet which pisses the bad guy off who then starts shooting at you.....for example...and you are solidly behind the curve getting shot and having to fight even harder for your life....
Go over to the training board and ask members who does quality Fof in your area of Philly.
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
- Frederic Bastiat
April 27th, 2013 08:38 AM
There is no one answer, what you suggest may work--or it may not. Any reaction has its risks.
Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid...
"For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield
April 27th, 2013 09:03 AM
Read the first account in the article posted here:
In The Aftermath Of A Shooting.
Regardless, for you it is just a scenario and you never know how the bad guy will react. I have decided that I would take a shot the first chance I get, and I will make my own chance by acting instead of reacting.
-PEF, a Framer with a Steelie...
1. All guns are always loaded.
2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
April 27th, 2013 11:09 AM
Some people actually carry a 'fake' wallet with a couple dollars in it and inconsequential stuff to make it look like a wallet, then they throw that with their non-shooting hand.
But then I would do the following:
1. I'd throw the wallet away to the BG's rear quarter opposite the side that there is cover for me. So, if there is a car bumper to my right, I throw the wallet to his back right (or my far 10-11 O'clock). That way he has to turn away and take a step to retrieve it.
2. As I was beginning to deploy, I'd seek cover behind the car and/or acquire some distance. I'd want to move far enough away that it would me more difficult to rush me as I deployed, but stay in that short shooting range should I need to shoot.
3. I'd ascertain my backdrop as I faded back behind cover or concealment.
4. I would not use verbal commands, but get on target and if he advanced -perhaps- say 'stop or I'll shoot'. Perhaps not, depending on the circumstances, I may shoot immediately, especially if there was no cover.
5. Doing the above, I also get off the 'x', so I'm not where he expects when he turns around if he does.
April 27th, 2013 12:08 PM
As I read through these situations and responses, it struck me just how fraught with options even this sorta simple event is.
If the guy is armed, give him what he wants and hope he leaves you alone? You aren't gonna draw on a guy already holding you at gunpoint, are you?
If he is not armed, are you gonna draw and shoot a guy over your wallet? Disparity of force (AOJ per Mas Ayoob) comes into play here, I'd think.
If you draw, call 911 and hold him? What if he "makes a move"? Sounds like he made his choice for you.
If others are around, you get them to call 911? If the guy takes off with you holding a gun, what if he calls cops and says some nut just pulled a gun on him?!
I'm sure there are many other variations. I wouldn't shoot someone over a robbery. I would if he had a weapon and I could get him before he got me. If he takes off I'd call 911 and give them a brief rundown and descriptions so I didn't get unwanted, incorrect "attention" from cops showing up at the scene. And on and on. This is really difficult and seemingly endless!
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