Take a Beating First?

This is a discussion on Take a Beating First? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I saw this headline and my first thought was to recall the "Knockout Game." If your training includes taking a beating vs drawing early, this ...

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    Member Array BuckNekkid's Avatar
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    Take a Beating First?

    I saw this headline and my first thought was to recall the "Knockout Game." If your training includes taking a beating vs drawing early, this might be worth a read.
    There might be no opportunity to fight back if you wait.


    Utah referee punched by soccer player in coma | Fox News
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    I don't know of any training programs which teach drawing to beat the sucker punch. What would you suggest?
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    Don't know of anyone who recommends taking a beat down before defending themselves, but before drawing you need to make sure the threat is there.

    Hopefully this gentleman will have a full recovery from his injuries.
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    Unacceptable behavior on the part of the attacker, but also highlights the need to maintain good SA, especially given that he's been attacked previously while doing this activity.

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    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    No matter how much you train, practice, prepare and have a world classe SA attitude there are times you are going to get it handed to you. I've known of black belts being taken out with one punch from a untrained guy. There is times it just not your day.
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    Distinguished Member Array squid86's Avatar
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    i dont quite get how this article matches what you are saying...this was a a youth recreational soccer league game and he got sucker punched. first i would not draw on a child unless they drew on me first. second, they said he was jotting down notes and the kid came from behind and sucker punched him in the side of the head. there is nothing he could have done to prevent this if he had a gun. i dont know of any training that tells you to take a beating before pulling your gun. you only draw your weapon if there is a direct threat against you or your family that could cause serious bodily harm or death and i would not consider a youth a threat unless they had a weapon. there is no way of the ref knowing that a punch coming from a youth would cause what it did, even if he did see what was coming.
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    Distinguished Member Array Once's Avatar
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    That really sucks. You have to feel for the family. You can't do much about being sucker punched.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I don't know of any training programs which teach drawing to beat the sucker punch.
    I've also never lived in a place where the statues require a person to "take a beating" before refusing via appropriate force.

    IMO, the plethora of stories such as this merely reinforce the reality: a punch can kill; a fall to the concrete from such a punch can kill; and these roving gangs of people perpetrating such thing represent a clear disparity of force and clear threat of serious injury or death. To my way of thinking, the use-of-force statutes support appropriate responses by citizens already, in nearly all states' statutes that I've seen.

    As the OP rightly points out: there might well be no fighting back, if a person waits until no circumspection, precaution, preparation to defend or actual defense is possible.
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    If the miscreant wants to do this, he should be tried as an adult. I have no sympathy for this thug.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuckNekkid View Post
    I saw this headline and my first thought was to recall the "Knockout Game." If your training includes taking a beating vs drawing early, this might be worth a read.
    There might be no opportunity to fight back if you wait.


    Utah referee punched by soccer player in coma | Fox News
    What are you trying to say here? This was not a confrontation, it was a blind sided sucker punch. Quite honestly I do not see an analogy here or a learning lesson. It is a news story that has zero to do with guns and self defense.

    EDIT:The only thing you might be able to squeeze out of this as a learning lesson is to keep ones SA up and to recognize if someone might get hostlile.

    But other than that I have no clue.......
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    To old to fight thats why I carry and dont go marginal areas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    there might well be no fighting back, if a person waits until no circumspection, precaution, preparation to defend or actual defense is possible.
    This is getting at my original point. I should have used the word "mindset" instead of "training" as well. The meat of the matter is to keep in mind that a fist IS a potentailly deadly weapon. "SA, SA, SA" and I am of the opinion that since a BG already has a plan, mine should be to get my weapon out of the holster early, not to wave it around and yell, just to get it out and hold it inconspicuously down by my leg. I suspect any BG worth his salt would notice that and move on. No shot, no paperwork.

    Ever watch the Knockout Game youtubes? The victims just blithely meander right up to groups of teenagers that are obviuosly out for kicks. See them coming, make an effort to change your course and avoid a close pass.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuckNekkid View Post
    This is getting at my original point. I should have used the word "mindset" instead of "training" as well. The meat of the matter is to keep in mind that a fist IS a potentailly deadly weapon. "SA, SA, SA" and I am of the opinion that since a BG already has a plan, mine should be to get my weapon out of the holster early, not to wave it around and yell, just to get it out and hold it inconspicuously down by my leg. I suspect any BG worth his salt would notice that and move on. No shot, no paperwork.
    .
    Personally I think a better plan is to not allow yourself to be part of the BG's plan at all. I'm not trying to disparage what you wrote but you can't just pull out your pistol and walk around with it in hand, no matter how discrete you believe it is. Most states have laws against brandishing and if the person(s) you believe to be the BGs aren't that at all, they may call the police and you could easily find yourself with a weapons charge. If you believe yourself to be in a vulnerable position, then your first priority should be to improve that position. If you allow yourself to be put in a scenario that has potential dangers then, to some extent, you have to realize that you've chosen to be there and you must accept some of the risk.
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    Member Array BuckNekkid's Avatar
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    TX, I completely agree that the best solution is not to be there. That's exactly why I mention changing course in the knockout game scenario. And I am certainly not advocating drawing in a crowded public square. It's the lonely gas station/shopping center parking lot that would seem to be the most fertile hunting ground a BG might use. When your SA tells you you are being stalked, don't wait until you have received the first strike to do something. That is why the referee story can be instructive, because waiting for a BG to commit might be your last decision.

    Your observations are completely sound, and I appreciate the input.
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    How you carry yourself, and the resolve in your heart will let the potential aggressor know if you are a soft or hard target. I have worked with these animals long enough to be able to tell you this with absolute 100% certainty.

    They know if you are real or putting on. And they can smell what kind of "dog" is in you. Very much like the real animal world.
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