Pizza Parlor Fight
If this has already been discussed, then post a link to the thread and I will view it.
I am curious as how others would react.
1.) Pretend you are the guy on the phone.
2.) Pretend you are one of the bystanders.
What do you do?
Also, please notice no one is stepping in or assisting either before, during, or AFTER! Every sheep in this place just looks like they are waiting for their pizza.
Also, for all of you people "on the fence" whether carrying is a good idea, this may help make up your mind.
Link to the thread here when this was first posted.
The gal who started it all went to jail IIRC. So did the big boy who did the punching.
I noticed no one comments (from the original thread) on the fact that they could be the guy on the phone. At what condition would you go orange/red if you were the guy on the phone?
If I was in a shop and someone overheard my cell phone conversation and thought it was misdirected toward them, I would have a chance to be in the same situation this guy was.
The thing I noticed about the original thread was that many people said they would have maced (pepper spray, bear spray, whatever) the big guy. I can tell you that if this guy is a repeat offender and as big as he is, he will probably not be affected and you will piss him off. Afterall, this guy probably uses mace for shoe deodorant!
So now I am wondering at what point would you have escalated to orange/red? Would you have left the building? waited until he punched you?
Either way, I am outa there, at the absolute latest, from when the woman strikes him. Probably much earlier than that. That space is way too confined. Take it outside and dial 911 to report an assault. Less witnesses that way too.
One more reason among many not to be in a self-induced condition white by talking on the phone in a crowded public place.
Originally Posted by walther1
I would not be that guy on the phone.
I'd not stand there like an idiot trying to pretend like I were invisible thanks to a phone, after having either one of those a-holes say diddly to me.
Street sense dictates that one go to mental alert readiness right there. As such if that means I leave and come back for my pizza later when it's safer/wiser then I do that.
The pizza guy wasn't wrong but he made wrong choices, likely out of inexperience with being in such a situation and/or having no street sense.
There were a lot of warning signs that something was going to go down, no matter whose role you choose. From the point where the woman spits on the guy in the red shirt, and he comes out from behind the counter, I'm out of there. If she follows me, or her trained gorilla won't let me leave, then things could get real bad.
Realistically, it's probably too close quarters with too many bystanders for a gunshot right there, and one punch from that guy would be enough to put me out, probably for good.
I don't know about anyone else, but as a 160lb 5'6" guy, I would stand absolutely no chance of defending myself against an attack by Mr. gorilla without shooting him. If I couldn't leave, I'd probably ignore them both and try to head behind the counter (without turning my back on them) while hitting 911. That's the only place that would give me any space whatsoever. If they're still coming once I get behind the counter, my gun's coming out, and I can only hope I can find a clear firing lane.
This sort of situation is almost a nightmare, tactically. You can't retreat, can't defend yourself without shooting, and can't shoot safely. What's left?
This is my thought...
I was thinking the same thing. I saw this video a long time ago and always remembered how much of a nightmare it would be to be in this situation.
Originally Posted by Bob The Great
I also agree with Matt Larson about "self-induced condition white". Just doesn't make much sense to pretend life is not happening around you because you were on a call. Maybe if you would unholster your weapon as the gorilla moves toward you, then you may have a clear line of fire as all the :sheep: make an "alley" and move to one side or the other. On the other hand, if the :sheep: just stand there then you are in a quandry and you look like the aggressor bringing a weapon out. It is a no-good situation either way.
I am 5'10", 210 and solid. I used to bodybuild and I can tell you right now that a man that size makes me :gah: .
This video has always played in my mind. It is a valuable tool because everything exists to playout a good CCW scenario; close quarters, many people, different condition escalations, surprise attack, bystanders not doing anything. What does one do???
At the end of the day, it is hard to say what would have been a good strategy, other than exiting the place would have been objective numero uno to me.
Darwinism in action- the guy on the phone was too stupid to be in public, unattended. Either some stupid has been knocked out of him, and he is now a productive member of society, or he will have another encounter that will be genetically sterilizing.
Getting caught unaware happens. Being a smart-a**, and keeping you phone plugged into your head while the BGs group is self-destructive- something I assiduously avoid.
As for escape & evasion there is definitely opportunity to retreat.
Nothing seperating anyone from escape but a waist high counter surface.
Leap over that and head to the backdoor forthwith.
The shop owner is not going to do a thing to stop you from doing so either.
Think out of the box...
Very bad scenario, but a good example of a real life situation and how it can play out.
It may be easy to "armchair general" this one, but as it goes down the right choices may not be clear.
Of course, avoidance is the watchword for the "cell phone" guy. As soon as he started arguing with the female, he became part of the problem.
As the big guy approached, If "cell phone" had been armed and pulled his gun - the "big guy"(?) would have been justified in killing him in self defense.
But if he had managed to get off a shot or two to COM - cell phone guy would have been charged with homicide.
Even if "cell phone" had pulled and fired after being struck and beaten to the ground, he may have been charged with homicide, because he was part of the "cause" of the conflict.
The way I see it (and I'm probably wrong) there are several ways this could have played out - all of them are bad:
1. the way it did
2. "cell phone" double taps the big guy - com - and beats feet outta there.
3. "cell phone" double taps the big guy - com - and stays for the police. He gets charged and probably convicted of 2nd degree homicide, manslaughter or attempted murder if the bg lives.
4. "cell phone" hangs up the phone, apologizes and leaves before this gets out of hand.
Apologizing is fubar.
Thats taken as a sign of weakness on the street by folks of the attackers (man & woman) mindset. :|
Originally Posted by Janq
Like I said, all of the scenarios are bad.
Avoidance is the only good option.
Different response...I do not have to leave a place I have a legal right to be...
Originally Posted by steve_db
Now I do believe that I would want to leave at the first sign of trouble. I am not a cop, and I am not there to solve the problems of others.:nono:
However, if I could not leave or was spat upon, followed by an approach from Mr. Gorilla, I have no choice.
I am almost 60 yrs old, I have had two major operations in the last 7 months...
Spit on me? That's an assault, and you have already communicated your intentions for damage. Then your 'gorilla' boy friend begins to approach me...:argue: sorry...2CM right now...I'll take my chances.
I can show one assault already, disparity of numbers, disparity of size, and...I feared for my life...I was forced to stop the threat! The tape would show my story...clearly...
While I know that nothing is so simple as an easy scenario explaination, this is a crazy world and I WILL not allow myself to be 'beaten to a pulp'.:buttkick: I do not look for trouble...I've never been in trouble...
Looking at that video...I would never have been in a place like that anyway...
This is why I live in rural Florida area...big cities are not worth living in nor visiting.
I certainly would not expect others to come to my assistance...damn :sheep: :sheep: :sheep:
Stay alert...stay safe!