I'd be curious to hear opinions on this scenario.

This is a discussion on I'd be curious to hear opinions on this scenario. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I work frequently in North Philadelphia. For those of you who don't know N. Philly is one of the worst areas in the US. I ...

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Thread: I'd be curious to hear opinions on this scenario.

  1. #1
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    I'd be curious to hear opinions on this scenario.

    I work frequently in North Philadelphia. For those of you who don't know N. Philly is one of the worst areas in the US. I am a utility worker (fiber optic splicer) and am alone in these neighborhoods 99% of the time. Usually my day consists of the gang members and drug dealers accusing me of placing cameras on the poles to keep an eye on them, or of disconnecting there services (ie. Power, phone, cable TV) which I don't work for any of those utilities. I do get hassled a lot and have gotten pretty used to it. I really never thought to ask in a defense class what I'm to do if I ever do have to draw my weapon and take a life. Something tells me if I happen to successfully protect my life while taking the life of one of these "gangbangers" those wont be the last shots fired. I'm sure I would be out numbered quickly. And obviously I can't leave the scene. What would you di if this situation presented itself to you? I won't accept "find a new job, don't work in that area etc. This is my profession, I've been doing it for 17 years, and it's just the way it is. Thanks
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    Member Array Blackheart6's Avatar
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    Perhaps your handgun just needs to get you to the van/truck. There you could have a carbine, like a Keltec Sub 2000 that could even run off your handgun mags. The Sub 2000 folds up nicely, so you could stash it away pretty easily. There are large capacity mags available as well.

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    Senior Member Array BadgerJ's Avatar
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    I'm surprised you haven't had to do anything thus far. I think it might be prudent to invest in a lapel cam or something to record any confrontations. After all it's not really the BGs you worry about but the cops and legal system indicting you, just saving your own life in a clear SD situation. If you have proof that you were stopping a real threat it could help you.

    I'm not sure I follow you here - "...obviously I can't leave the scene". Have you talked to your manager about how to handle any confrontations in such a high crime area? I'd think he'd tell you to get out of there and maybe come back when things cool off, or even take a partner on the install.
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    VIP Member Array Stevew's Avatar
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    I would make sure to carry a few spare mags and keep the phone charged. A dash cam would not hurt.
    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadgerJ View Post
    I'm surprised you haven't had to do anything thus far. I think it might be prudent to invest in a lapel cam or something to record any confrontations. After all it's not really the BGs you worry about but the cops and legal system indicting you, just saving your own life in a clear SD situation. If you have proof that you were stopping a real threat it could help you.

    I'm not sure I follow you here - "...obviously I can't leave the scene". Have you talked to your manager about how to handle any confrontations in such a high crime area? I'd think he'd tell you to get out of there and maybe come back when things cool off, or even take a partner on the install.
    As far as manager, I am the owner of the business. I have 4 other employees, only 1 that CC's (I've suggested to the others, and offered to pay for any defense classes they feel would be best to get them comfortable. Anyway I tell my guys to drive through the work zone first to eye up the situation. If they feel there is a potential threat, continue to drive right out. And then we'll usually go back with 5 trucks strobes and beacons going to really maintain a presence. But there are times when all appears quiet and then hell breaks loose. This is the scene I'm more thinking of.
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    I know nothing about your company policies, your state laws, or any of your local ordinances, but if my personal safety called for me to exit the scene after a shooting, you can bet your sweet bippy I'm beating feet. I can settle up with the law and the lawyers once I'm safe.

    And the world extends beyond N. Philly, by the way.
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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    You options are pretty clear. You will need to bring more to the fight than the Gangbangers bring. A rifle in the truck is a good Idea. Use the pistol to get back to it. You may or may not encounter more BGs. Generally they do not want to get shot, so if one goes down, maybe two, the fight may be off, however do not count on that.

    In the context which you described, I would have a good fighting pistol, with at least 4 extra mags. In the truck I would have a AR with at least 4 mags. You should be able to stop any gang activity with that. As far as tactics are concerned. You will have to seek out some training in urban combat.
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    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    You've been doing it for 17 years and been fine. Another 17 and you'll probably be fine.

    Keep carrying a gun but you probably don't need to tool up like Rambo.
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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rammerjammer View Post
    You've been doing it for 17 years and been fine. Another 17 and you'll probably be fine.

    Keep carrying a gun but you probably don't need to tool up like Rambo.
    Thats true, I might have gotten a little carried away, but he did ask....
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    And the world extends beyond N. Philly, by the way.[/QUOTE]

    Believe me Old Vet N. Philly is not the only area I service. But unfortunately it's one of them. The fiber Optic cable has to get into Center City Phila. some how. It just happens to be the route it takes. I'm trying to expand my business so that I will be fortunate enough to be able to work in a much more desirable place. As rammerjammer said I've been doing it for 17 years. I dont lose sleep over it, just looking to hear what others thought. That's all.
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  12. #11
    Senior Member Array BadgerJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConcealedinPA View Post
    As far as manager, I am the owner of the business. I have 4 other employees, only 1 that CC's (I've suggested to the others, and offered to pay for any defense classes they feel would be best to get them comfortable. Anyway I tell my guys to drive through the work zone first to eye up the situation. If they feel there is a potential threat, continue to drive right out. And then we'll usually go back with 5 trucks strobes and beacons going to really maintain a presence. But there are times when all appears quiet and then hell breaks loose. This is the scene I'm more thinking of.
    Well good to know you're handling it cautiously and with a show of numbers. I would strongly suggest you do not go the route suggested of having a rifle in the truck. This looks as though you are prepped for a fight and not just SD. If it got out that you were doing this it would be very bad publicity and if someone broke into the truck, they'd then have a rifle.

    Otherwise I like your plan. Stay safe.
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    VIP Member Array Easy8's Avatar
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    Take a look at CZ duty p9 it carries 19 plus one in chamber might have a hard time finding one seem to be out all over but 40 rds in two mags sounds good

  14. #13
    Senior Member Array USM1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadgerJ View Post
    I'm surprised you haven't had to do anything thus far. I think it might be prudent to invest in a lapel cam or something to record any confrontations. After all it's not really the BGs you worry about but the cops and legal system indicting you, just saving your own life in a clear SD situation. If you have proof that you were stopping a real threat it could help you.

    I'm not sure I follow you here - "...obviously I can't leave the scene". Have you talked to your manager about how to handle any confrontations in such a high crime area? I'd think he'd tell you to get out of there and maybe come back when things cool off, or even take a partner on the install.


    Do you really believe a working man would have a difficult time with the criminal justice system ? More than likely if one had to draw a handgun for self defense, there would be more than one gun present, and it's likely the lone worker would probably die next to his tools used for cable splicing. Gang banger carry guns for a living !! BUT, in the hopes he was able to get back into his van/truck he should get out of there and call police from another, safer location.

    Does anyone really believe the police are going to believe a bunch of gang bangers, or better yet, do you really believe a bunch of gang bangers are going to be waiting around to talk to police ? The worker can return to the scene with police and explain how a shooting went down. It is not requisite a shooter remain at a shooting scene if it is not safe to do so. It wouldn't be the first time officers had to go to a scene from a point meeting a compalinant.

    This from investigating hundreds of murders and shootings scene.

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    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USM1976 View Post
    It is not requisite a shooter remain at a shooting scene if it is not safe to do so.
    This was my thought too. Getting to safety is the absolute number one priority. In the immediacy that undoubtedly means your vehicle. As soon as possible, call 911. Keep your SA up, remain on the line with the 911 dispatcher and if at any time you sense a threat coming, leave the area and tell the dispatcher what you are doing and why. They should be able to help co-ordinate a location for you to rendezvous with the police.
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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    I dont know what your carry gun is, but my choice would be at least a G26 with 17 round mags for reloads. And a nice Mossberg Shotty in the truck.
    They dont call a shotgun "street sweeper" for nothing.

    But, on top of all that, just be nice to them when they come around. Most are ignorant as hell, and if they are convinced that you are not there to mess with them, all the better.
    You could say something like " hell no Im not hooking up police cameras, I cant stand the police". Or any creative thing you can think of to put them at ease.

    Re direct their attitudes and natural animosity and territorial suspicion.

    Be nice, until its time not to be. The biggest factor in avoiding confrontation and attack is understanding thug thinking.
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    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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