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A creepy late evening walk (5-14-13) @ 11:30 PM (approx.)

4K views 49 replies 27 participants last post by  Hopyard 
#1 ·
Hello From NH

I am a 24 year old Marine Engineer, contractor for the USN. I have been carrying for about 4 Months now.

I concealed carry a Beretta PX4 Storm Compact when out on the streets and open carry a Glock 17 when hunting.

I would like to include a story from yesterday evening (5-14-13) in my first post.

My wife, myself and 3 (male) friends all went out to the local Applebee's for some appitizers and drinks (I of course just drank water) and afterwards we decided that we would like to go for a short walk after the greasy food.

Theres a walking path that was converted from the old railroad bed in my town, and thats where we decided to walk. Its about 11:30 PM at this point, so I pulled out my 5 mode ultrafire WF-502B (cheapie but goodie).

At one point on the path one of the old railroad trusses has been converted to a walking bridge that crosses over the river, well theres also stairs that go down below this bridge, a couple of our friends had never seen down there before so we decided to go down for a moment. With my ultrafire on high, lighting wasnt an issue.

while we were down there we heard a loud bang (like a hammer on soft wood). We couldn't tell where it came from so we decided to go back up to the path and move on. As we were walking up the stairs we hear a male voice yell "I'll kill you... followed by running footsteps across the bridge. When we got to the top and started across the bridge my flashlight beam lit up two figures less than 30 feet from us standing, facing one another inches apart like statues. The one facing us had some blood on his forehead and had a menacing look on his face. -->

I kept the light on them and as we walked by the man facing us didnt even blink, admittedly my strong hand was rested on my hip the whole time we walked by. Once we were across the bridge I looked back and the figures were both walking toward us. Just beyond the bridge the path opens up into a large well lit parking lot in the center of town, once we entered the lot they stopped following us but we could hear slow and deep whistling coming from the darkness behind us. Pretty freaky. I never called the police because they were pretty young looking (between the ages of 17 and 20 or so) and I just figured they were trying to mess with us.

I am the only person in that group that carries, and in a sense I'm glad because I'm not sure how any of the others may have reacted if they were armed like I was. My wife was definiteley freaked out.

We took an odd way back to my house and made sure we werent followed.

what do you guys think about it? what would you have done?
 
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#3 ·
Two of them, and five of you and you had your hand on your gun?? I assume that you and your 3 male friends could handle two teenagers. Remember, the gun is the last resort. Outside of that, I am glad nothing happened. Be safe...
 
#5 ·
This is why I'm glad I posted the story, because you guys pick out everything wrong with my reaction. The adrenaline was pumping due to being unaware of what was going on, I didnt even think about their age until after the fact and they were pretty big guys, so in the heat of the moment I guess just knowing that the firearm was there calmed my nerves. I had zero intention to draw it. thought didnt even cross my mind.

As for my friends, I trust them to react properly. I was simply stating that you never know. I can't really save face on that one.
 
#6 ·
From the way you describe it, it sounds like you did the right thing. You quickly assessed a potential threat and removed yourself from the situation. As for calling the cops, I'd say that's probably a judgment call. Did they ever overtly threaten you (as opposed to appear threatening)? Did you suspect some sort of violence occurred prior to your seeing the two guys? You may have surprised them as much as they surprised you. Remember too that you had a light shining in their eyes, so they may have been a bit freaked by that.

You imply they were following you, but maybe they were on their way back to the parking lot?

I'm not trying to second guess what you did, since I only have a sketchy understanding based on the scenario you presented, just adding some alternative explanations. I think you were 100% right to go into the yellow zone. My only real critique would be the decision to head out onto a trail at 1130 at night.
 
#9 ·
Glad you're safe but you obviously violated the third 'S' rule 'stupid places'.

IMO, you should never proceed into a situation relying on the fact that you are armed. You should behave politely and as if you are not armed (no bluster, iow). By shining the light on this person it could be construed as provocative. Could you have gone back the way you came? If you were not armed would you have gone back to check or scurried off? If the latter, then, in retrospect, that's what you should have done.
 
#13 ·
I think you should have simply dropped the paranoia level down about 10 notches, said "hello, hope we didn't disturb you" ... and walked on like nothing was abnormal at all ....... while always being ready for anything. Are you so niave that you don't know that walking paths, railroad trusses, etc. are areas that the homeless use and travel too ..... along with a few paranoid folks who have schizophrenia and a host of other mental issues ? Really ? And most of them won't want you disturbing them that late at night... especially if they are drunk, doing some drugs, or trying to settle in for the night, or .... in fear themselves of any outsiders who's intent they don't know.

Geez.... sounds like you have lived a very sheltered life and don't realize a lot of things going out in the real world, outside the little safe haven of your house. Sorry, but that's how it comes across to me.

I'll go anywhere , any time, for whatever reason and of course I will run into, meet, encounter every type of person from all kinds of walks, attitudes, and circumstance...... and as long as I've followed one rule I have had few problems.... that "all people" .... deserve respect no matter what their condition or circumstance.... they aren't to be feared.... and you treat everyone they way you want them to treat you, and you'll usually get it back.

I'm sure you were transmitting / communicating your fear , and how would you feel if someone walked into your house .... and then acted suspicious of you, everything you did, staring at you, and acted as if they were afraid of you ? Obviously you were outside your comfort zone, didn't know how to handle it, and had your "feelies" up as a result.

I'm a late nighter... not an early riser, and the "night" doesn't bother me at all ..... I don't look for the bogeyman to jump out from behind a tree, but if he does... it will probably end up a bad day for him.

the world is not Nickelodeon.
 
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#14 ·
Here's how I see it. You were walking with a group. You see two people with a conflict of some sort. You don't know the nature of the conflict. More significantly, you don't have a dog in the fight. Keep walking. Call 911? What for? They were leaving you alone. Why not leave them alone? And as far as your gun, this sounds like one of those instances where a pair of legs is worth more than a gun.
 
#17 ·
Then again, why should someone be afraid to go for a walk armed with 4 other folks? I don't let fear of the unkown dictate my life. I use risk assessment. Hmm 5 folks together, one armed, in an area they are familiar with......what is wrong going for a walk?

It is not like it was a female alone at night in a seedy part of town (sorry for the sexism)
 
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#24 ·
"I'll kill you," is a very serious threat. In fact, i can't think of too many more that are more serious. Good way to get yourself ventilated.

I think you handled the situation very well. Hand on hip is a very reasonable action when someone threatens you and your families lives.

If he/they had then decided to close the gap on you... Deadly force would be a reasonable response to stop someone who has already threatened and is now making good on said threats.

Duty to retreat was also exhausted if they decided to pursue after you tried to leave the area.
 
#26 ·
Hey...I spot some bloody face that is 30' away from me and I hear a total stranger yell "I'll Kill You!" My hand is not on my hip.
My hand is on my firearm and I am ready to draw and treat some potential deadly threat to a muzzle flash fireworks display.
 
#28 ·
I take a late night walk with my friends in a public but generally deserted area.
I hear the sounds of a struggle and some sort of "fighting words".
Do I investigate: No, I do not.
Do I go near that area unless it is the only way out of the area: No, I do not.
If I have to go near the area to leave I turn on my flashlight well away from the area and shine it on the path to make my presence known. Not at the people or in their eyes. I assume an "alpha male" stance, ( upright, obviously alert and striding purposely) as I pass by I look directly and levelly at the people and nod my head as I continue to walk purposely and well away as I can get, by. I continue on as calmly and quickly as possible out of the area to an area with lighting and go on my way.
I do not provoke nor insinuate myself into something that is none of my concern.
I do have my hand on my weapon.
As soon as I am in an area that is well lit and away from the danger: I call 911.
 
#37 ·
Also, I would like to point out that this walking path is a paved path that runs through a wooded area in the center of town and crosses the river. It is not just an old railroad bed that isn't in use any more. You enter the path from the street on one end and it opens up into a parking lot at the other end, the path is less than a half mile long. So as far as I know nobody lives down there. There are plenty of empty booze bottles littered below the bridge though.
 
#41 ·
No need to explain yourself, OP. There are too many unknown factors for any of us to be criticizing what you did after you encountered those 2 men. It's easy to say "4 vs 2 and you were scurred?!!" especially with 20/20 hindsight; however, the simple fact is we don't know if it was:

- 2 armed men vs 1 woman, 3 men and 1 armed man
- 2 unarmed vs same as above
- 2 unarmed or armed but "huge" and physically fit vs a group that just ate greasy food and can barely react quickly, let alone run

Having a gun should never make you feel that you have an advantage, ever. Which is why I will say this - 11:30 at night I would have taken a longer path back home just to avoid being in a stupid place at the wrong time.
 
#42 ·
I dont disagree with what youre saying Harry. But being the only person inside my head at the time I knew I would only draw if my life was in danger. My light was on the man's torso to check for weapons. The fact that the words "I'll Kill you" were shouted just seconds prior to the encounter, there was no way for me to know what was going on, what led up to the confrontation between these two men, or how serious the death threat was. When the two men began walking together I assumed that they were doing it all for show. Which is why we simply walked away. The facts behind the loud bang that we heard and the blood on the mans face will forever be a mystery. for those who mensioned it possibly being a gunshot, It had no report of any kind and sounded nothing like a gunshot, it was more like a blunt object hitting a tree maybe?
 
#43 ·
Yep,

You can go anywhere you have a legal right to be. Wanna walk on a reclaimed RR path through the woods in an urban environment, you can do that... If you wanna walk through dark alleys to see if you can get from one side of town to the other without seeing a street light, go for it...

I know, right?
It's like, New Hampshire, dude...
It ain't the 'hood.

But then, I live in Iowa... Just as rural as NH, I suppose...

But then, one of my friends from work walked home one night... after he got off at 2:30 a.m. On the way home; he was beaten, kicked, stabbed twice, and left for dead by 4 attackers. That incident is what confirmed my decision to start carrying again... I hadn't had a permit for 30 years ... Though 30 years ago, I had both personal and professional permits.

But, here's the deal... You can live your life and enjoy it as you wish... being a bit adventurous, or you can always avoid the three stupids... people, places, and things... sometimes you can do both...

You could have avoided the situation altogether. But then... you wanted to see where the trail went. Curiosity killed the cat, we know... so, it's a good thing he has 9 lives.

Given the situation that arose, you did well... Best to avoid intentionally using up the nine lives though, you know?
 
#47 ·
Thank you everyone for your input. It is very much appreciated, even you Eagle and Harry who had some constructive criticism for me.

Hopefully nothing like this ever happens again, but if it ever does the things discussed here will definitely play a role in the decisions that I make.

I still do not believe that I should feel like I have to fear a walking path smack dab in the middle of town just because some punks decided to choose that particular area to put on their charade/fight whatever it was. I will most likely still take my evening walks through town and even through that area.

Will I walk through there close to midnight again? most likely not. Not out of fear, more so to avoid a repeat of what happened or something similar.
 
#48 ·
Chad, you have every right to enjoy your neighborhood and community. You have every right to walk where you please, with or without friends in tow. You have every right to go armed. You have every right to prepare yourself to withstand the manifest actions of others when those actions appear likely to blow out of control, so long as you're within the law while doing so.

That said, the "three stupids" idea is also worth keeping in mind. Walks in the dark on lonely stretches, wherever those may be, and as you found out even if that entails being with numerous people in a group, can trigger something in the mind of miscreants. To many, remote = out of screaming distance and away from help. Something to consider. Might well be worth having other members of your oh-dark-thirty walking group (for example) be armed as well, and to consider some non-lethal defensive alternatives to bring with you in such places (ie, pepper spray, blindly bright flashlight, etc).

You did fine, IMO. You needn't necessarily have moved your hand anywhere near your hip or holstered gun, given the situation, but it's not unreasonable to have done so given the dire death threat you specifically heard. Consider the options and possible improvements, and move on. :yup:
 
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