What to do in this situation?

What to do in this situation?

This is a discussion on What to do in this situation? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I live in a small town and own a barber shop. I'm the only barber in the shop. We've had 3 armed robberies (2 with ...

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Thread: What to do in this situation?

  1. #1
    Member Array IndianaMike's Avatar
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    What to do in this situation?

    I live in a small town and own a barber shop. I'm the only barber in the shop. We've had 3 armed robberies (2 with gun, 1 with knife) in the last 6 weeks. I've been debating what I would do if someone tried to rob me at gun point.
    Do I shoot them, or give them a chance to retreat first? If they had a knife I'd definitely give them a chance to drop it. Just wondering what everyone would do in that situation?


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    New Member Array Slappy65's Avatar
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    Fear for life or great bodily harm = drop the bad guy

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    If you feel your life is in danger you are justified in stopping the threat by whatever means you choose.
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
    "Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way."

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    Why would you consider a knife to be less of a threat? Dead is dead. Doesn't matter how it happened. I'm going to answer a deadly threat the best way I can.
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    Do I shoot them, or give them a chance to retreat first?

    You mean..."Do I shoot them or give them a chance to shoot me first?"

    You shoot them first & when they fall to the floor that is when you stop shooting them.

    And if somebody busts in and attempts to rob you with a knife....you shoot them also.

    I won't post any photos here but search Google for "knife wound" and then click on images to see knife wound photos.

    You do not want to give some highed up criminal looking for drug money a chance to do that to you.
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    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    ...if I were in Indiana, I'd look up and be very familiar with INs deadly force laws...and what the penal code or equivalent there says constitutes a robbery, an armed robbery...etc...

    ...without any law to compare your whatifs to, we're all just giving you advice...may be good, may be directly against IN law...
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    Senior Member Array Inspector71's Avatar
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    Old Proverb ~ He who hesitates is lost. Adapt the correct mindset and carry on with your life.
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    Most barber shops are not that big if bg comes in with knife and is within 10 ft I would shoot. It takes a sec for him to lunge at you. Forget the articile but its called within 21 feet guy with knife has advantage, dont risk it.
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    Hesitating could get you killed. You should view a knife the same that you would a gun if they're in the same room with you. Even if you shoot them, they can still be on top of you, carving you into ribbons.

    I take presentation of lethal force from a criminal who's threatening to use it very seriously. I'd be shooting him to the ground.
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    I can't remember the name of the drill, but its eye opening.

    Basically, a man with a knife can cover 21 feet and stab you before you can get your gun on target.

    Someone robbing you with a knife is just as much a threat to your life as someone robbing you with a gun.


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    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    ...another old proverb: look before you leap.............know what the law says you can do...
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    Check the laws. Get someone else to be in the shop with you, doesn't have to be a barber.

    Set up video surveillance so you can prove the legality of the shoot.

    Lock the door between customers and when you are engaged. Put up a sign 'Door lock broken, knock or ring to be admitted'. (IOW don't say 'due to robberies', lol.
    msgt/ret and BenGoodLuck like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    ...
    You mean..."Do I shoot them or give them a chance to shoot me first?"
    QK summed it up right there.
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    Indiana Code IC 35-41-3-2 & IC 35-41-3-3

    IC 35-41-3-2
    Use of force to protect person or property
    Sec. 2. (a) A person is justified in using reasonable force against another person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
    (1) is justified in using deadly force; and
    (2) does not have a duty to retreat;
    if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.
    (b) A person:
    (1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against another person; and
    (2) does not have a duty to retreat;
    if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person’s unlawful entry of or attack on the person’s dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle.
    (c) With respect to property other than a dwelling, curtilage, or an occupied motor vehicle, a person is justified in using reasonable force against another person if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to immediately prevent or terminate the other person’s trespass on or criminal interference with property lawfully in the person’s possession, lawfully in possession of a member of the person’s immediate family, or belonging to a person whose property the person has authority to protect. However, a person:
    (1) is justified in using deadly force; and
    (2) does not have a duty to retreat;
    only if that force is justified under subsection (a).
    (d) A person is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against another person and does not have a duty to retreat if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or stop the other person from hijacking, attempting to hijack, or otherwise seizing or attempting to seize unlawful control of an aircraft in flight. For purposes of this subsection, an aircraft is considered to be in flight while the aircraft is:
    (1) on the ground in Indiana:
    (A) after the doors of the aircraft are closed for takeoff; and (B) until the aircraft takes off;
    (2) in the airspace above Indiana; or
    (3) on the ground in Indiana:
    (A) after the aircraft lands; and
    (B) before the doors of the aircraft are opened after landing.
    (e) Notwithstanding subsections (a), (b), and (c), a person is not justified in using force if:
    (1) the person is committing or is escaping after the commission of a crime;
    (2) the person provokes unlawful action by another person with intent to cause bodily injury to the other person; or
    (3) the person has entered into combat with another person or is the initial aggressor unless the person withdraws from the encounter and communicates to the other person the intent to do so and the other person nevertheless continues or threatens to continue unlawful action.
    (f) Notwithstanding subsection (d), a person is not justified in using force if the person:
    (1) is committing, or is escaping after the commission of, a crime;
    (2) provokes unlawful action by another person, with intent to cause bodily injury to the other person; or
    (3) continues to combat another person after the other person withdraws from the encounter and communicates the other person’s intent to stop hijacking,
    attempting to hijack, or otherwise seizing or attempting to seize unlawful control of an aircraft in flight.
    As added by Acts 1976, P.L.148, SEC.1. Amended by Acts 1977, P.L.340, SEC.8; Acts 1979, P.L.297, SEC.1; P.L.59-2002, SEC.1; P.L.189-2006, SEC.1.
    IC 35-41-3-3
    Use of force relating to arrest or escape
    Sec. 3. (a) A person other than a law enforcement officer is justified in using reasonable force against another person to effect an arrest or prevent the other person’s escape if:
    (1) a felony has been committed; and
    (2) there is probable cause to believe the other person committed that felony.
    However, such a person is not justified in using deadly force unless that force is justified under section 2 of this chapter.
    (b) A law enforcement officer is justified in using reasonable force if the officer reasonably believes that the force is necessary to effect a lawful arrest. However, an officer is justified in using deadly force only if the officer:
    (1) has probable cause to believe that that deadly force is necessary:
    (A) to prevent the commission of a forcible felony; or
    (B) to effect an arrest of a person who the officer has probable cause to believe poses a threat of serious bodily injury to the officer or a third person; and
    (2) has given a warning, if feasible, to the person against whom the deadly force is to be used.
    (c) A law enforcement officer making an arrest under an invalid warrant is justified in using force as if the warrant was valid, unless the officer knows that the warrant is invalid.
    (d) A law enforcement officer who has an arrested person in custody is justified in using the same force to prevent the escape of the arrested person from custody that the officer would be justified in using if the officer was arresting that person. However, an officer is justified in using deadly force only if the officer:
    (1) has probable cause to believe that deadly force is necessary to prevent the escape from custody of a person who the officer has probable cause to believe poses a threat of serious bodily injury to the officer or a third person; and
    (2) has given a warning, if feasible, to the person against whom the deadly force is to be used.
    (e) A guard or other official in a penal facility or a law enforcement officer is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, if the officer has probable cause to believe that the force is necessary to prevent the escape of a person who is detained in the penal facility.
    (f) Notwithstanding subsection (b), (d), or (e), a law enforcement officer who is a defendant in a criminal prosecution has the same right as a person who is not a law enforcement officer to assert self-defense under IC 35-41-3-2.
    As added by Acts 1976, P.L.148, SEC.1. Amended by Acts 1977, P.L.340, SEC.9; Acts 1979, P.L.297, SEC.2; P.L.245-1993, SEC.1.

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  15. #15
    Member Array thebucketeer's Avatar
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    As you describe it, capability and intent are there. I would certainly not hesitate to draw, whether I actually shoot would depend on a the situation. Does the BG respond to the presentation of the weapon and GTFO? Maybe that's all it takes. Not to degrade the thread into another discussion of whether you only draw with intent to fire, but I'll say I can see situations where you draw but ultimately don't have to shoot. Guy comes in the door with a knife talking smack, I draw my ccw, he stops short and slowly backs to the door and runs out. I then reholster and call the cops. Alternatively, if he is coming at me quickly and I don't have time to delay without risking my life, then I shoot without question.

    Now, I say that from the standpoint that it's really just a thought experiment as I sit here. Lord only knows how I'd react if the situation actually arose. Thankfully it's threads like this that at least allow us to think them through.

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