Wrong words and decision? Please advise.

This is a discussion on Wrong words and decision? Please advise. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Good evening, Earlier this evening (every eventing at 830PM), I go for my evening run. part of my route takes me around to the street ...

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    Member Array Beretta's Avatar
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    Wrong words and decision? Please advise.

    Good evening,

    Earlier this evening (every eventing at 830PM), I go for my evening run. part of my route takes me around to the street behind my block. The neighbors behind me do not have a fence, and do not keep their Rottweiler leashed. I've never had a problem until tonight, The rottweiler came out of their screened porch (not sure if it broke out or not) and charged me as I am running on the opposite side of the street. I am carrying a concealed fanny pack across my chest- with a springfield xdm 9mm inside, a maglite XL50. The dog approaches me as I quickly whipped out my flashlight and pepper spray, spraying it in the face. The dog stopped in its tracks but didnt back down. The dog kept trying to go on the offensive as I continued to burst spray at it. I considered dropping the flashlight to reach for the pistol in the event that the spray ran down- but didnt draw.

    Hearing the commotion, the owner steps out of the house and calls to the dog. The dog immediately retreats. The owner smuggly says 'sorry', like everything is cool. In my moment of adreanaline I said, "if it forces me to shoot, I will shoot". Immediately afterward I realized how stupid that was, the owner replied "she wont" and I turned to restart my run.

    I dont normally carry pepper spray, however tonight as I got ready for the run, I saw it on the wall mount and decided it couldnt hurt.

    My question to you is, would this have been a justified shoot if the dog bites down on me? What are the repercussions if I ever have to shoot that dog in the future now that I've uttered those words?

    I will work on finding a new route, but so far this is the best lit, best laid out route. Other routes have similar situations with one or more dogs (pitbulls) that aren't secured.

    I'd like to speak to the neighbor, but not sure now since I feel like a jackass. Any advice is always thoroughly appreciated.
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  3. #2
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    Find a new route.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    Member Array Beretta's Avatar
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    For sure ^
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    Senior Member Array USM1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta View Post
    Good evening,

    Earlier this evening (every eventing at 830PM), I go for my evening run. part of my route takes me around to the street behind my block. The neighbors behind me do not have a fence, and do not keep their Rottweiler leashed. I've never had a problem until tonight, The rottweiler came out of their screened porch (not sure if it broke out or not) and charged me as I am running on the opposite side of the street. I am carrying a concealed fanny pack across my chest- with a springfield xdm 9mm inside, a maglite XL50. The dog approaches me as I quickly whipped out my flashlight and pepper spray, spraying it in the face. The dog stopped in its tracks but didnt back down. The dog kept trying to go on the offensive as I continued to burst spray at it. I considered dropping the flashlight to reach for the pistol in the event that the spray ran down- but didnt draw.

    Hearing the commotion, the owner steps out of the house and calls to the dog. The dog immediately retreats. The owner smuggly says 'sorry', like everything is cool. In my moment of adreanaline I said, "if it forces me to shoot, I will shoot". Immediately afterward I realized how stupid that was, the owner replied "she wont" and I turned to restart my run.

    I dont normally carry pepper spray, however tonight as I got ready for the run, I saw it on the wall mount and decided it couldnt hurt.

    My question to you is, would this have been a justified shoot if the dog bites down on me? What are the repercussions if I ever have to shoot that dog in the future now that I've uttered those words?

    I will work on finding a new route, but so far this is the best lit, best laid out route. Other routes have similar situations with one or more dogs (pitbulls) that aren't secured.

    I'd like to speak to the neighbor, but not sure now since I feel like a jackass. Any advice is always thoroughly appreciated.

    If you've ever seen someone after they have been mauled by a dog, I think you would answer your own question. How far will you go before the dog drags you to the ground ?

    The dog owner was at fault, why would you feel it necessary to apologize ?? Don't know what your law enforcement is like there, but did you call and report this to police ? Perhaps this is not the first incident of this dog attacking people.
    Beretta and NONAME762 like this.

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    VIP Member Array blitzburgh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta View Post
    ...snip...
    My question to you is, would this have been a justified shoot if the dog bites down on me? What are the repercussions if I ever have to shoot that dog in the future now that I've uttered those words?
    As much as I love animals (especially dogs), you can bet your ass that pups going to heaven (like all dogs do) if he bites down on me.

    Far as repercussions, I have no clue. Look up your local laws.
    "Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." - Benjamin Franklin
    "Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn." - C.S. Lewis

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    Ex Member Array Manderinobyebye's Avatar
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    I posted something once before,a little while back,about it happening to me..I've had that problem only two times.Thankfully,i didn't shoot either dog.Where i live,we have a"leash law".I still asked a cop,and an animal control officer,if one attacked,out of their yard,and i shot it,what would happen to me?.Both of them told me nothing.I'm in S.C.
    They were aware,i had a ccp.
    Brent95 and Aceoky like this.

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    #1 I'd say you were dang lucky you had your pepper spray. If this had of been me I'd be making tracks to wherever I'd bought that spray and pickup 2 or 3. (The 'old 1 is none' principle is how I roll.)

    #2 Love your rendition of a Willys flat fender jeep.

    #3 I'd make a report to the local police I think. If only to start a paper trail.

    #4 Over the years I've seen too many instances of the wrong kind of people owning Rotts, pit bulls and Dobermans.
    When I was about 6 I saw a German Shepard attack a 3 year old. I alerted an adult who ran out and chased off the dog. Something like that stays with you for a long time. Basically I look at all of the popular (fairly) dangerous dogs like I look at people with hoodies especially in hot weather when they're not needed. Until they prove different to me they are a threat.

    #5 Look into changing your route.
    Firing a suppressed is on my Bucket List.

    I'm just a spoke in the wheel but not a big deal.

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    Member Array Bradyman1's Avatar
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    If this is the best route I wouldn't put my self in the position of running on an unlit, pitbull infested route. You did the right thing. The owner now has a dog that has been aggressive and got off very lightly in my opinion by being maced. If they don't keep their dog up what ever happens to it is their fault. Be it a car hitting it, it attacking and killing a small kid or old lady, or you having to shoot to protect yourself. I for one don't believe I would let the dog bite me before I shot it. I would draw on it and scream like a little girl hoping that the owner would come and save their dog. If the dog lunged at me I would protect myself. I have a physical job and I can't afford to be setting around healing because someone doesn't keep their violent dog in check.
    oldnfat, atctimmy and NONAME762 like this.

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    Member Array Beretta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NONAME762 View Post
    #1 I'd say you were dang lucky you had your pepper spray. If this had of been me I'd be making tracks to wherever I'd bought that spray and pickup 2 or 3. (The 'old 1 is none' principle is how I roll.)

    #2 Love your rendition of a Willys flat fender jeep.

    #3 I'd make a report to the local police I think. If only to start a paper trail.

    #4 Over the years I've seen too many instances of the wrong kind of people owning Rotts, pit bulls and Dobermans.
    When I was about 6 I saw a German Shepard attack a 3 year old. I alerted an adult who ran out and chased off the dog. Something like that stays with you for a long time. Basically I look at all of the popular (fairly) dangerous dogs like I look at people with hoodies especially in hot weather when they're not needed. Until they prove different to me they are a threat.

    #5 Look into changing your route.
    Thank you sir,

    - Update - I did call LEO just to report it, Deputy said that he has contacted animal control to handle the situation, and that my use of OC Spray was justified and no further action is required on my part. Also, yes, my Sabre pepper spray stopped the animal, although it didnt take the fight out of it. Was also surprised by the range. I would say it reached approx 8 feet, but hard to tell with the lighting. I will find another route. Just too many people that shouldnt own animals that do.
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  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta View Post
    Good evening,

    Earlier this evening (every eventing at 830PM), I go for my evening run. part of my route takes me around to the street behind my block. The neighbors behind me do not have a fence, and do not keep their Rottweiler leashed. I've never had a problem until tonight, The rottweiler came out of their screened porch (not sure if it broke out or not) and charged me as I am running on the opposite side of the street. I am carrying a concealed fanny pack across my chest- with a springfield xdm 9mm inside, a maglite XL50. The dog approaches me as I quickly whipped out my flashlight and pepper spray, spraying it in the face. The dog stopped in its tracks but didnt back down. The dog kept trying to go on the offensive as I continued to burst spray at it. I considered dropping the flashlight to reach for the pistol in the event that the spray ran down- but didnt draw.

    Hearing the commotion, the owner steps out of the house and calls to the dog. The dog immediately retreats. The owner smuggly says 'sorry', like everything is cool. In my moment of adreanaline I said, "if it forces me to shoot, I will shoot". Immediately afterward I realized how stupid that was, the owner replied "she wont" and I turned to restart my run.

    I dont normally carry pepper spray, however tonight as I got ready for the run, I saw it on the wall mount and decided it couldnt hurt.

    My question to you is, would this have been a justified shoot if the dog bites down on me? What are the repercussions if I ever have to shoot that dog in the future now that I've uttered those words?

    I will work on finding a new route, but so far this is the best lit, best laid out route. Other routes have similar situations with one or more dogs (pitbulls) that aren't secured.

    I'd like to speak to the neighbor, but not sure now since I feel like a jackass. Any advice is always thoroughly appreciated.
    I'm assuming there's not a friendship you want to culture (or save) with this neighbor. Thus, if it were me, I would:
    1) Adjust my route;
    2) Call police/animal control (whichever agency you need to report to) so there's a history (for your sake and others);
    3) Not verbally threaten to use your gun against even a dog.

    #3 seems important. Some people take any "tough talk" as an invitation to play violent games. Other people freak out and call the police, and then what do you do? And then your "That guy that threatens to shoot dogs that yip at him." You don't want that history.

    Finally, if Fido the Pit Bull bites down on me, I'm shooting it before it eats my femoral artery for a quick snack.

    (If it's Fifi the Shih Tzu nipping at my sock, I'm gently kicking it away with my shoe. I don't want to explain to a cop why I put 158 gr in a 159 gr dog)
    -PEF, a Framer with a Steelie...
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    1. All guns are always loaded.
    2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
    3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
    4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array 357and40's Avatar
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    The questions you ask would be better asked of a lawyer. The advice of changing your route is wise.
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    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    ...I disagree with those saying find a new route...he's the one in the right...let the neighbor control her dog...our society ducks dealing with wrongdoing too much...and then we wonder why they keep on doing wrong...

    ...I think the conversation was not wise...now she's heard you say you'll shoot her dog...and she'll remember it...

    ...pepper spray works sometimes...sometimes not...I'd back it up with a good walking stick...go about my normal business, and let those who are violating the dog laws do the changing...

    ...I'd forget talking to her about it...she's not a good neighbor or she'd have her dog restrained...

    ...keep notes and report all violations to document any future contact...
    Beretta, USM1976, darbo and 3 others like this.

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    VIP Member Array NONAME762's Avatar
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    This old Redneck really can be quite articulate when I set my mind to it.

    I wonder if Bear Repellant might work better than plain old pepper spray?
    Rock and Glock likes this.
    Firing a suppressed is on my Bucket List.

    I'm just a spoke in the wheel but not a big deal.

    America...a Constitutional Republic. NOT a democracy as the liberals would have us believe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NONAME762 View Post
    #1 I'd say you were dang lucky you had your pepper spray. If this had of been me I'd be making tracks to wherever I'd bought that spray and pickup 2 or 3. (The 'old 1 is none' principle is how I roll.)

    #2 Love your rendition of a Willys flat fender jeep.

    #3 I'd make a report to the local police I think. If only to start a paper trail.

    #4 Over the years I've seen too many instances of the wrong kind of people owning Rotts, pit bulls and Dobermans.
    When I was about 6 I saw a German Shepard attack a 3 year old. I alerted an adult who ran out and chased off the dog. Something like that stays with you for a long time. Basically I look at all of the popular (fairly) dangerous dogs like I look at people with hoodies especially in hot weather when they're not needed. Until they prove different to me they are a threat.

    #5 Look into changing your route.
    I also look at the owners of such as dangerous until proven otherwise, even though my son is one such owner and their dog is sweet, and my kid is mellow.

    Any dog can and will misbehave, and I swear some of them consciously plot their misdeeds in advance. I've owned enough to know you can just watch the wheels grinding inside their skulls. If they have a mean streak they'll figure out how to
    show it when their master is least in control.
    Beretta likes this.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snub44 View Post
    ...I disagree with those saying find a new route...he's the one in the right...let the neighbor control her dog...our society ducks dealing with wrongdoing too much...and then we wonder why they keep on doing wrong...

    ...I think the conversation was not wise...now she's heard you say you'll shoot her dog...and she'll remember it...

    ...pepper spray works sometimes...sometimes not...I'd back it up with a good walking stick...go about my normal business, and let those who are violating the dog laws do the changing...

    ...I'd forget talking to her about it...she's not a good neighbor or she'd have her dog restrained...

    ...keep notes and report all violations to document any future contact...
    In theory you are right. In practice, I think I'd like to keep my legs and arms in one piece.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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