"Could you? WOULD YOU?...." - Page 3

"Could you? WOULD YOU?...."

This is a discussion on "Could you? WOULD YOU?...." within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; +1 on the no "I wouldn't go to "X" location/be in "X" situation" response policy Now that we're (hopefully) through the "I wouldn't go there/I ...

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Thread: "Could you? WOULD YOU?...."

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    +1 on the no "I wouldn't go to "X" location/be in "X" situation" response policy

    Now that we're (hopefully) through the "I wouldn't go there/I don't have a wife/this scenario is totally irrelevant to me" responses I have an answer/suggestion.

    At this point, I wouldn't be confident in making that kind of shot, even with my own gun (need more practice). However, I think there's still a solution to this problem: point your weapon at the BG and walk towards him until you're close enough that you are confident that you can make the shot. If I get close enough, eventually I'm going to reach a point where I'm be sure that I can make the shot.

    If you start closing the range, the BG only has a few options.

    1. He can try to move backwards. While dragging the hostage and trying to stay behind her, you should still be able to close the distance. All this does is delay things a little bit.

    2. He can shoot your wife in the head, which would definitely lead to you gunning him down in a very justifiable homicide. Since the scenario specified Florida, his relatives who think he's a poor misunderstood angel wouldn't even be able to sue.

    3. He can take the gun away from your wife's head and try to shoot you. In this case, your shot just got easier. You no longer need to make an instant-stop CNS shot, any solid headshot will probably do the job.

    4. He can wait until you get close enough that you're confident you can make the instant-stop shot through the eyesocket.

    5. He can drop the gun and surrender or run away.

    Obviously, #2 is an undesirable outcome, but it's no worse than what would happen if you missed the shot from the original distance. All the other outcomes are better. Now there may be circumstances where closing the range is impossible (barrier between you and the BG/hostage, etc.), but if you can get closer, get closer. Real life is not a training exercise, you don't have to accept the shot that is initially given to you.


  2. #32
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Blackeagle this is EXACTLY the kind of well thought out response I was looking for when I started this thread! Thank you. Thank you ALL for your responses! I feel it is of critical importance to think these things thru...just in case. Hopefully NONE of us will ever find themselves in such a terrible situation.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  3. #33
    Member Array DILLIGAF's Avatar
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    the wife and I have already discussed this before and plan for her to fake a seizure and drop dead weight. that would open up the the line of fire and put her further out of the way.
    911 Government sponsored dial a prayer!

  4. #34
    Member Array profshadow's Avatar
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    A) Start with a bigger, badder, and most importantly, trained dog!

    B) This guy doesn't know my wife very well....HE's in big trouble!

    Seriously,

    First, I'd tell the kids to go and call 911.....but until I was close enough to be sure I'd miss who is important to me, I wouldn't shoot.

    About that time too, my wife might remember the pepper spray on her keychain.
    Armed & Dangerous...and Inconspicuous...

  5. #35
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kairo View Post
    I'm curious as to whether or not a headshot would stop a persons reflex from firing into the hostage. All I've seen on TV and crap is that the BG gets shot and just crumples. If I were the BG, I think I'd be so tense that the minute I felt the bullet whizzing at me, I'd clench up and fire.

    Can someone sort me out here?
    A brain bucket shot is a permanent "lights out"--by the time the brain recognizes "hey, that's a bullet", the bullet is rattling around in the back of the head, if it hasn't already blown it out...there will be no twitch.

  6. #36
    Member Array gotammo's Avatar
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    Either situation your screwed why carry what you are not familiar with?
    The wife is dead, chances of you making the shot with a gun you shoot great with is extremely low, and the amount of time it would take you to make the shot the wife is toast.
    Unless you can convence him that the only way out is to release the hostage and git when the shooting starts chances of the SO making it seem non-existant to me.
    Save who you can but hope you never have to decide this for real.

  7. #37
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotammo View Post
    Either situation your screwed why carry what you are not familiar with?
    The wife is dead, chances of you making the shot with a gun you shoot great with is extremely low, and the amount of time it would take you to make the shot the wife is toast.
    Unless you can convence him that the only way out is to release the hostage and git when the shooting starts chances of the SO making it seem non-existant to me.
    Save who you can but hope you never have to decide this for real.
    ??? By taking a hostage, he's indicated some level of negotiability, if even momentarily. IOW, you have set-up time. If you can't put 1 "locked-in" shot at 25 odd yards in a 1" area the handgun is not your tool. No offense, but the "hostage scenario" is about as static-range as you can get. Re, survivability, in our current age, you've got about a 70/30 chance of being shot, regardless of compliance, if the BG targets you (vs a store/resturante/etc hold up). So the question for each of us is: Will you bet on compliance? Or combat?

  8. #38
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    V1: Shoot. With confidence.
    V2 (even though I would never carry a gun without firing at least 1K rounds): Shoot. No confidence.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  9. #39
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    +1 on the "I wouldn't be there" rule

    I like these threads.

    In a previous one, someone posted that they would never let one crime scene turn into two by allowing a BG to leave with a hostage (speaking in terms of a spouse/sig other). That got me thinking, and I think I agree.

    My wife doesn't role play these things well. Not that she is in denial of the dangers of life, I think she just looks at the odds of this happening to her as being pretty low. Statistically, she's right; realistically, it CAN happen to anyone.

    All that being said, I don't believe for a minute she would just stand there and let this BG hold a gun to her head. We don't have a preset code word that means "I'm gonna elbow him, drop to the ground and go for his family jewels while you ventilate his head." To me that sounds a little too Hollywood to really exist. If you and your wife "train for this" IMHO, you may be a little paranoid. Also, what makes you think that this will play out nice and neat according to plan? (Flame away). Although, the training IS fun.

    I guess all I'm trying to say is that if your wife just stands there, shoot with whatever confidence you can muster. If you do nothing, she dies for sure. At least by acting she has a chance to live. I agree that no matter what, the BG is dead.

    Back to what I think would happen to me. As per the scenario I react quickly enough to have weapon drawn and working on the sight picture. Meanwhile my wife is trying to turn around and is saying something to the effect of "What the...?!" When she see the gun, she will do something to try to get away from the threat. That is her nature. When she makes her move, either 1) target opportunity to take out bad guy, or 2) her resistance causes BG to shoot her, take out BG. So my priority is to react quickly enough to be ready when she makes her move, which she WILL do. No code word needed, only sharp senses and quick reaction.

    V1 and V2 elicit same answer.

    Dave.

  10. #40
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    This is a situation that I've often thought through. I've also discussed it with my young bride, in the event either of us, or another family member, were the hostage. In both scenario variations, cooperation and timing could make all the difference in a succesful and disastrous outcome.

    As Ex and others have said, there's simply no choice. Either the perp gives up or he gets shot. I will not give up my weapon or allow him to leave with a hostage.

    As to the scenarios:
    1) I'm very confident in my ability to hit the target at 10 feet with my 1911 primary carry weapon. When I'm convinced there's no other option I take the shot.

    On the other hand, if I'm caught in this situation (shame on me!) with just my BUG, that's another kettle of fish. I'd have to advance and keep advancing until I'm in VERY close proximity or my hand is forced. There's still no choice but to shoot, at some point, however. Again, giving up the weapon is not even on the table.

    2) Shame on me for carrying a weapon I've never fired, but there you are -- it is what it is. Considering results I've had with some really fine weapons on the first shot I've ever taken with them, I'd take the shot at 10 feet. It's a gamble of the highest order (as is the whole situation), but the alternative is so much worse.

    It's always important to consider what can happen, not just what might happen.
    Cheers,
    Rod
    "We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

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