Dinner Robbery Scenario
This is a discussion on Dinner Robbery Scenario within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; My family went to dinner tonight at an Indian and Nepalese Buffet in Westminster, CO. We frequent this location on a fairly regular basis because ...
July 27th, 2013 02:39 AM
Dinner Robbery Scenario
My family went to dinner tonight at an Indian and Nepalese Buffet in Westminster, CO. We frequent this location on a fairly regular basis because the food is excellent and fairly priced. The surrounding shopping center is located on the boundary between a smaller affluent area and a large lower income section of metro Denver. Though we have never had any issues in the area, for some reason tonight I was thinking about the following scenario.
After getting the family’s first plates of food, you have settled down to enjoy a delicious, but somewhat crowded dinner. Being generally tactically aware, you asked for a booth located far away from the cash register. Suddenly, you hear commotion at the front of the restaurant- three masked men have entered the main door, screaming at the manager to open the register. You inherently duck down into the booth, placing your hand on the ccw piece carried in your cargo shorts front pocket, while simultaneously imploring the kids to be quiet. Unfortunately, the alternate exit is on the other side of the robbers.
Realizing that it is NOT your job to stop a robbery gang, you plan on being a good witness, and try to make mental notes on all three suspects, including race, rough heights, weights, vocal characteristics, weapons, etc. Suddenly, two of the men start threatening the seated patrons, demanding wallets, purses, wedding rings, and begin working their way towards you family. One patron resists, and a blast from a sawed-off Mossberg 500 shatters an overhead decorative lamp. As your children begin screaming uncontrollably, the men are only two tables away and acting MORE aggressive each second. You have about 10 – 15 seconds before they reach your family.
WHAT DO YOU DO?
July 27th, 2013 02:48 AM
Kill everyone and let God sort it out?
It not a "dinner" robbery anymore. Defend the family.
Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid...
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July 27th, 2013 03:01 AM
Make 3 head shots.
Closest BG first. Shotgun BG next, third BG last unless he is heading for the exit.
Call 911 and hope for the best.
I'm just a spoke in the wheel but not a big deal.
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July 27th, 2013 03:07 AM
July 27th, 2013 03:37 AM
Shotgun gets it about 1 second after he takes out the ceiling, Then nearest BG and DON'T shoot the last guy anywhere but the front. If he is running he gets away. I figure I have a moment after the shotgun fires but only a moment. You didn't say if either of the other 2 had a gun out but - so sorry, nearest BG gets it anyway. HE was participating in a deadly felony. I assume he was going for a gun. As or immediately after my first shot I'm shouting "Drop the gun" loudly so everyone hears me. I don't wait for him to respond. If he/ they have not surrendered or jackrabbiting for the door with his buddy he/they go "down". The guy with the shotgun gets no warning till I have fired at him. To warn him would be stupid in the first degree and the likely penalty would be death.
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July 27th, 2013 11:25 AM
I agree you waited too long to act. That said, guy with the shotgun gets the first double tap, the guy with him the next. Depending on what guy 3 does will decide what happens with him. Hopefully your not carrying a 5 shot revolver.
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July 27th, 2013 11:30 AM
I would never have an edc in my front pocket.
"If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
William T. Sherman
July 27th, 2013 12:11 PM
3 BGs vs 1 GG with a pocket pistol... Not good.
First of all, you have to wait until they get within range of your pocket gun. With an LCP or similar gun that is short on sights, and long on trigger pull, I would not be comfortable taking shot over a few yards in a crowded diner.
Second, you will likely attract fire, meaning your family might be hit.
Third, you have very limited ammo, so each shot HAS to count.
I would think right after the shotgun BG lets one fly into the lamp would be a good time to engage, but its a pretty dicey scenario.
Though defensive violence will always be a sad necessity in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men -St. Augustine
July 27th, 2013 12:16 PM
Carry enough gun. Otherwise sit back a be a good witness.
Don"t let stupid be your skill set....
Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......
July 27th, 2013 12:22 PM
In this scenario I bet you are wishing you had a Glock 19 or 23 and a spare mag instead of a pocket gun. Not much a LCP, Kahr PM9 or S&W Bodyguard is gonna do against 3 armed robbers. Granted, most robbers are gutless losers and will probably run at the first shot, but they might not.
This scenario is exactly why the pros like Clint Smith say "if you are going to carry a gun, carry a big gun" and "its not supposed to be comfortable, it is supposed to be COMFORTING should you ever have to bet your life or the lives of your family". This is one of the reasons why I switched my EDC back to a double stack Glock. I can conceal it well enough, but it makes me a formidable opponent to multiple attackers and wolves usually travel in packs.
As Benjamin Franklin left the hall in Philadelphia, he was asked, “What kind of government have you given us, Dr. Franklin?” He replied: “A republic, if you can keep it.”
July 27th, 2013 02:31 PM
I'd probably get robbed along with everyone else.
July 27th, 2013 02:35 PM
Or shot along with everyone else because you didn't try defend your family.
Originally Posted by Secret Spuk
Vietnam Veteran - 1966-1970 USASA
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Carry Pistol. Gen 3 Glock 19, 9mm.
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July 27th, 2013 02:42 PM
Or a dead witness.
Originally Posted by Harryball
If even in this scenario you simply plan on being a "good witness", then why the hell do you carry anyway? You might as well leave the gun at home. Clearly you don't plan on using it.
"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
-General James Mattis, USMC
July 27th, 2013 02:42 PM
Meh... I'd rather take my chances with 5 or six shots against three armed men then be unarmed. That's the choice some people have to make if their work attire doesn't allow a G19 to be concealed. Don't get me wrong... I'd rather have my 870 in that case, but the gun you have is better than the gun at home.
Originally Posted by smolck
I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
July 27th, 2013 03:22 PM
Given the OP's hypothetical, this is the correct answer. The OP was correct in the beginning; when the robbery of the cash register was just that. His role was to be a good witness. Nothing more. However, when the bad guys turned their attention to patrons, and began to move in a fashion which suggested that they intended to canvas the entire room, the time to act was RIGHT THEN. You were now becoming a direct target of a bad guy with a gun. If you ever find yourself in that position, NEVER let the bad guy(s) dictate the terms of that enounter. Shoot them in the back if possible but put them down very quickly. Unlike in the movies, bad guys typically do not fall down when they're shot; they shoot back. Shutting down their CNS, inducing shock, must happen ASAP. If it's winter, and they are wearing coats, and your skills will allow, try to take head shots but make sure you hit them in a known critical area quickly. If it is a coats season, you are at a disadvantage; your coat is on the back of the chair. Say absolutely nothing. Yelling "drop the gun!" is for the movies and TV. In real life, it's a great way to make all of the bad guys aware of you and draw their attention solely to you. The #1 thing to remember, when things have reached the point you describe, is that there is no such thing as "fighting fair"; you kill as fast as possible. Period. Just start shooting and do it as fast and as accurately as you can. However, each and every customer and employee in the restaurant, or their families, are just waiting to sue you for everything you own. Be accurate. This is where training with your weapon is essential. Nothing annoys me more than kids who say "shooting a gun is easy, I don't need to practice. When the time comes, I'll hit the bad guy." That's a ruined life looking for a place to happen. Don't let it happen to you.
Originally Posted by Ghost1958
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