Bodyguards?

This is a discussion on Bodyguards? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I don't know what made me think of this, and I'm sure there are lots of variations, but I'll try to just keep it on ...

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Thread: Bodyguards?

  1. #1
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    Bodyguards?

    I don't know what made me think of this, and I'm sure there are lots of variations, but I'll try to just keep it on the main theme.

    You are someplace and someone you recognize as being famous (ie. movie star) decides that you are sitting at their favorite table at the restaurant you are in and decides to start a rant with you. (ie. you are not the bonehead that starts the whole incident).

    As you get up from your seat, you are verbally responding to the rant/defending your position. Suddenly a BIG guy is coming at you with apparently no intention of stopping. You quickly decide it is probably the bodyguard, and that his impact is going to hurt.

    What level of response is appropriate/justified?

    Would drawing on him only justify his shooting you in the performance of his duties?

    Do you have to submit to physical force, believing the situation is what it is, a bodyguard performing his duties? (ie. being knocked down, or physically removed from the restaurant)

    Other pertinent points:

    This is not an official ie. secret service, rather a private bodyguard.

    This is not a chance to show the famous person that you have every right to be there (even if you do). You are willing to retreat, but it looks as if it will get physical before you can.

    Disclaimer: This is my first scenario to dream up, and I'm sure I have left out some key points. Just work with me, please.

    Anyone who works in the industry of private security, please weigh in.

    Dave.

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  3. #2
    Member Array Tros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davyray View Post
    What level of response is appropriate/justified?
    Level of response? Sit there and take whatever he dishes out, or slip out of the way of the bodyguard.

    Quote Originally Posted by davyray View Post
    Would drawing on him only justify his shooting you in the performance of his duties?
    Why in the world would you draw on him? Because he is approaching you? Just because he's big and he's approaching you doesnt mean he's threatening your life.Thats not good enough of a reason, davyray.

    If a questionable person is getting near you, and you are starting to get worried, you need to try to remove yourself from this person, not point your gun at him. I am not going into detail on every little possible scenario on this matter, as you see.

    Say this fella is a bodyguard. If he is a bodyguard he is not just going to lay you out unless you are a physical threat to the person he is watching over.

    Another point worth mentioning is if for some reason a famous person is being a 'tard and wants their favorite table your reaction should not be to get upset or ranty with them. A calm, "then go talk to the manager," should be the most you need to say. If the famous 'tard for some reason started being stupid an employee would be much more than likely to report the situation to their boss.

    Long story short, there is no reason for that particular situation to become exculated to the point where drawing a weapon is needed.

    Just my two cents...
    Beretta 92FS

  4. #3
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    Tros covered it well. Most private security are trained , not goons. If they were to go around getting physical with everyone
    1. they would be in legal trouble
    2. would be creating more danger for themselves and their protectee
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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    Member Array absit's Avatar
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    The response is:

    Sorry, only the owner of the establishment, or agent thereof, can direct me to another location, or refuse me service.

    If I get hit I'm getting a BIG civil settlement, I'll take a broken jaw or nose for 10 million, in addition to medical expenses.
    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
    - Edmund Burke

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    I'll not say a word. If a bodyguard attacks me so much the better. I will endure a little pain to retire shortly there after a multi-millionaire. The verbal abuse should be worth enough to pay off my house, car and other things, but maybe not retire.

    Now change it to gang bangers at the local 'teria and things change a lot.
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    Ditto. Drawing on him in the situation you have described would be ILLEGAL in every state that I'm aware of! So the choice is, do I draw on him and spend time in prison, or do I let him hit me and collect a big, fat lawsuit settlement?

    Is this really a question that has to be asked?

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    Member Array amlevin's Avatar
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    There is a good chance that the Body Guard is a Professional. If you do present your weapon he will cancel your ticket---permanently!

    Think of it like this. A beating will only last so long and death if forever. Take your beating (If the scenario actually plays out this way) and go for the financial award later. If you are alive, you will be able to enjoy it.

    In reality, again if the Body Guard is a Pro, he will merely remove his client from the scene and nothing will happen unless you do something stupid.

    As a parting thought, why do you think that you would be sitting in the "star's" favorite seat anyway. Chances are, the manager wouldn't have even seated you there or would have asked you to move as the star came into the restaurant. You wouldn't even be breathing the same air as the celeb.
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    Let the bodyguard approach. No biggie. He is a civilian just like you. If he touches you, that is simple assault, and he has just opened him/herself up to a civil lawsuit. If there is force involved then it becomes battery with its varying degrees.

    If you draw your weapon, you have become the agressor, with the charges that go with that.

    Keep you mouth shut unless your fork is going in to it. At this point the idiot celeb is looking more and more like a baffoon, and you are looking more and more in control. That is what we all strive for: control or the appearance thereof.

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    Member Array msg usa's Avatar
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    In the wonderful world of professional "Asset Protection", this situation would never happen. The principle would be quickly removed. It would not graduate. If the client was the direct cause, the client might end up shopping for another service. That sort of crap is not just tolerated.
    God Bless the USA

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    I would extend arm, make fist, extend middle finger and politely remind everyone around me what country I live in. I would then stand up take a bow to the crowd's standing ovation.

    Seriously, bodyguards are quite nice and won't interfere with people on an offensive basis, as far as I know. They are guards not soldiers for hire.
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    Quote Originally Posted by davyray View Post
    As you get up from your seat, you are verbally responding to the rant/defending your position. Suddenly a BIG guy is coming at you with apparently no intention of stopping. You quickly decide it is probably the bodyguard, and that his impact is going to hurt.

    What level of response is appropriate/justified?
    I'd not get into a brawl, but if anyone laid a hand on me, I would defend myself appropriately...

    1 - I'm a citizen, going about my lawful business.
    2 - I'm quite wealthy, moderately powerful and influential in my community, and my wife is an attorney. And we both carry.

    So, the response I'd go for would be to divest the "celebrity" of a significant chunk of their assets.

    Do you have to submit to physical force, believing the situation is what it is, a bodyguard performing his duties? (ie. being knocked down, or physically removed from the restaurant)
    Why on earth do you think you would be required to submit to assault and battery?

  13. #12
    Member Array PolarBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    I'll not say a word. If a bodyguard attacks me so much the better. I will endure a little pain to retire shortly there after a multi-millionaire. The verbal abuse should be worth enough to pay off my house, car and other things, but maybe not retire.

    Now change it to gang bangers at the local 'teria and things change a lot.
    I agree 100% with this.

    Call a good lawyer, and after that call the news.
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    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    Sit in your seat and make no agressive moves. Inform the "famous person" that for $10,000 you would be happy to reliquish your table. You will become a "bonehead" too if you stand and escalate the situation by verbally sparing with him. All the cards are in your favor if you play them correctly.
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

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    Oh man I wish this would happen to me. I really would love to retire. I would let him beat me to a pulp if need be. All the while never being agressive toward him. Hopefully there are alot of great witnesses for me to call to court.
    "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I won't."
    General George Patton

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    While I agree in principal with many of the responses, I am curious about a couple of responses...

    Scott, what difference does it make if the guy who is about to assault you is in a 3-piece suit or is a gang banger?

    denverdOn, why is drawing and/or shooting to protect yourself from an assault in a disparity of force situation ILLEAGAL?

    I guess that is the crux of my scenario, is it not OK to defend yourself to the utmost in some situations?

    bae, I tend to agree with your response, why should I have to endure assault from anyone?

    I am enjoying the dialog.

    Dave.

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