Street side Shootout.

This is a discussion on Street side Shootout. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; You’re sitting in a nice street side café in the location of your choice with the companion of your choise when you hear gunshots from ...

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Thread: Street side Shootout.

  1. #1
    Member Array arcticelf's Avatar
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    Street side Shootout.

    You’re sitting in a nice street side café in the location of your choice with the companion of your choise when you hear gunshots from a few tables over.

    A scruffy man in scruffy clothes, looks like they and he came from the local shelter, is emptying a small frame revolver into the chest of another patron. After putting 4 or 5 rounds into the victim the gunman then tries to shoot himself in the head, but gets a click rather then another bang. He then sets the gun down on the table and starts to walk away. The diner companion of the man who was just shot is screaming historically and holding her dieing husband.

    Prior to the shooting the couple had been talking loudly about their recent vacation or something, and at no point does the gunman say anything.

    What do you do?

    This is stolen from a recent Numb3rs episode.

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  3. #2
    Member Array walther1's Avatar
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    Call 911, continue eating and then leave, without paying the bill. Hopefully nobody will see me!
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  4. #3
    Senior Member Array PapaScout's Avatar
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    Knowing that the "scruffy man's" gun is empty means that the threat has passed and my family is in no immediate danger. I would call 911 and be a good witness.
    "If you so much as bunny hop I'll cut your heart out!" Billy Bob Thornton in The Last Real Cowboys

    "I carry a gun for the same reason that I carry health insurance and a cell phone - be prepared."

  5. #4
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    Don't watch Numbers. So have no idea about how it played on the show. No speaking, just shooting is something going on. Could be a number of things, who knows. Get on the phone and follow the shooter giving the dispatcher updates on direction and location. Be ready for anything. In some states you could shoot the guy and in other states you couldn't once he put the gun down.
    Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.

  6. #5
    Member Array Sonic Misfit's Avatar
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    Use the camera on my cell phone to try and get a photo of the shooter and then call 911. Since the gun is empty and on the table, there is no need to draw and fire.

    It is better to be a good witness in this case since there is no personal threat and the damage has already been done.

  7. #6
    New Member Array Mo_Zam_Beek's Avatar
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    Click instead of bang, weapon on the table?


    A welcome to the NFL hit and ask for a length of phone cord to hog tie him.

  8. #7
    Member Array PolarBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    Don't watch Numbers. So have no idea about how it played on the show. No speaking, just shooting is something going on. Could be a number of things, who knows. Get on the phone and follow the shooter giving the dispatcher updates on direction and location. Be ready for anything. In some states you could shoot the guy and in other states you couldn't once he put the gun down.
    Scott, I agree.

    Because the suspect is leaving, and since he put down his gun he is not "noticeably armed", I believe the immediate threat is over. I would NOT want to "draw" in this situation. However I do not think I would have been sitting through this scenario WITHOUT drawing on the man before the point he put the gun down (but that goes off topic and is another story). Assuming things played out as stated AND for some reason I did not draw DURING the shooting, I would first call 911 (or direct to dispatch if in my county, as I am FF).

    At this point I would have a choice to make.

    On one hand I am a Firefighter and would be compelled to render aid to the victim, but after being shot 5 times at close range, I would most likely NOT be much help even with the proper equipment. Furthermore, if I did not have access to basic PPE like medical gloves I would NOT be able to render aid at all.

    On the other hand I would want to see the suspect taken into custody but I am NOT the police.

    Because of this, after calling it in, I would first QUICKLY assess the victim, relay all info to the dispatcher, and determine if I could provide any useful care to the victim (do I have any gloves with me, or is my truck and equipment close by). If my immediate care will be beneficial to the victim AND I am equipped and able to render such aid, I would stay and render that care to the victim. IF NOT, I would attempt to follow the suspect at a considerable distance (only close enough to maintain a visual) and remain on the line with dispatch giving them up to date info on location and suspect description. If my vehicle is close by and I can follow from inside my truck, then that would be preferable. I would maintain this visual until LE arrived and took over the situation, I lost the suspect, or I felt I was putting myself or other at considerable risk by continuing the “chase”.

    NOTE: I would NOT mention to dispatch I was armed unless I felt the suspect or anyone else became an immediate threat again and I needed to bring my gun into play.
    Last edited by PolarBear; November 28th, 2006 at 04:22 PM.
    "Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud..."
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  9. #8
    Member Array PolarBear's Avatar
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    In order to provide the most useful information to 911 try to use the following as a guide to help you give the most useful info first.

    -The location of the emergency (be specific, if you can provide an actual street address, or closest cross street, or if nothing else a landmark) Always give this info first, if nothing else they will know where to send help and they will be on the way.

    -Type of emergency. Tell them basically what the emergency is (someone was shot, car wreck, burglary in progress, etc). This will determine who the send.

    -When did it happen (going on right now, just happened, happened a few minutes ago, happened last week, etc).

    -After all that THEN add any other pertinent info like in this case the suspect is leaving the scene, heading in X direction and then a general description.

    -If you can help it, NEVER hang up until told to do so. Stay on the line to answer any questions.

    By following this guide, you can give the info needed in the quickest way possible in the order the dispatcher needs it. In the example of the café shooting it would go something like this:

    -Dispatcher: “911, do you need police, fire, or medical”

    -Caller: “Combat Carry Café on the corner of Constitution Place and Preparedness Way, Shooting just occurred, one victim down with multiple gunshot wounds, shooter is leaving on foot, south on constitution towards Chit creek,”
    "Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud..."
    -Jeff Cooper, "The Art of the Rifle"

  10. #9
    Member Array Bando's Avatar
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    Be a witness...
    The Problem: When stupid people do stupid things, smart people end up getting killed.

  11. #10
    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
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    Assuming that, for some odd reason, none of my friends nor myself drew and fired while the aforementioned puke was killing another person.....

    Probably going to be a good witness. I used to hang out outside of a Starbucks when I worked there and knew just about everyone who was friendly there. If it was someone I knew I think I would probably play the role of the angry Linebacker while someone else covered me. Grrr....
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  12. #11
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    Follow and keep distance while on with 911. If my companion trained like myself we would split up and cover him from different angles.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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  13. #12
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    Sounds Like The Victim...

    will be taking a 'dirt nap'...can't help him...

    Just make every observation you can while calling 911.

    The gun is down? I'm not drawing mine...'orange you glad?'

    OMO

    ret
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  14. #13
    Member Array produman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    will be taking a 'dirt nap'...can't help him...

    Just make every observation you can while calling 911.

    The gun is down? I'm not drawing mine...'orange you glad?'

    OMO

    ret
    Gotta agree with retsupy99 on this one. It is over, gotta be a good witness. If you follow he may have somebody with him who waited around the corner. Why put yourself in a dangerous situation if you do not need to, like they said the guy is gonna take a dirt nap.
    "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I won't."
    General George Patton

  15. #14
    Member Array gotammo's Avatar
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    remove the family and call 911

  16. #15
    Distinguished Member Array randytulsa2's Avatar
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    I concur with the majority on this one. Be as good a witness as possible. 9-1-1 and all.

    And get that free meal, too, if possible.....

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