Scenario: You just shot a home invader

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Thread: Scenario: You just shot a home invader

  1. #1
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    Scenario: You just shot a home invader

    You're alone in your house one Saturday night doing a little surfing and catching up on the new posts on the CombatCarry website (shameless self promotion, I know). Since you are focused on CCW issues, you have your gun sitting on the desk beside you. You hear a sound coming from the other room and, grabbing your gun, move to the door to look down the hall. As you move into the hall, a man suddenly appears as if he was about to enter the hallway. He stops, staring at you and he clearly has a weapon in his hand, pointing downward by his side. On impulse, you brought your weapon to bear immediately upon seeing him appear and have shouted a verbal command for him to "stop and drop the weapon". Instead of dropping it, his arm begins to rise. You fire instinctively putting two holes COM and the man collapses to the floor dead. There is no doubt, in your mind, that you were justified in shooting this person.

    Now, in detail, what do you do at this point? Reply and post before reading other people's posts to make it more interesting. :tick:

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  3. #2
    Former Member Array The Tourist's Avatar
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    I would set the gun down where I stood, and using a cell phone to document times and order of phone calls, I\'d call 911 asking for medical assistance and police. Then, no matter the time, I would call an attorney.

    I would also call my psychiatrist and book the earliest appointment I could. After the chemical dump there\'s no telling how your mind and body would react.

    In all cases, I want experts.

  4. #3
    Member Array nighthawk's Avatar
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    Make sure BG is dead, shoot again if need be. Call my attorney, call 911. Say nothing to the investigating officers until your attorney arrives.

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    Someplace between all those phone calls I\'d be cursing, knowing that I am probably going to lose a pistol. One the Police take it I doubt I\'ll be seeing it again.

    SInce no one has mentioned it so far, would anyone unload the weapon and leave it with the slide open? Why or why not?

    Rick

  6. #5
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    he clearly has a weapon in his hand
    End of his part of this scenario, his gun (I presume) is in his hand, I seriously doubt anyone could react to a sudden, fast raising of his weapon to firing position fast enough to keep from taking fire yourself . Ever do the reaction test with a dollar bill??? Fold length wise, hold your thumb and forefinger 1 inch apart, have someone hold the dollar with Washington’s portrait between your thumb and finger. Have them drop it without warning, you only have to move your fingers 1 inch to catch it, do you think you can do it??? You know for sure it will be dropped, just not when; I have done this with people before using a $20, they catch it, they keep it, they miss and they only owe me $5, I usually get $20 or more from them. They just can’t believe it is not possible to react fast enough to catch it. Now throw in uncertainty, you don’t know what is going to happen so you also have to process incoming information, think of a response AND THEN react, if he has a gun in his hand; can you say “dead me”?

    In many states there is a “reasonable man” test in either judicial precedence and/or statute law, what would a reasonable man think/do in a given situation, example being an armed intruder in your house, a reasonable man would have grounds to assume he was in danger of death/grievous bodily injury. Here in Missouri you have to demonstrate you were in fear of death/grievous bodily injury, an armed man in my house at night, yea I was in fear for myself and my wife. Find out what your state\'s laws require for application of deadly force.

    To answer the question, call 911 and request police and ambulance, I do not have a criminal defense attorney on stand by so no need for that call. I would keep my gun in my hand until the police arrive in case the BG is not down for keeps or has friends. I would probably also retrieve the riot gun from the safe as well because I live in the far corner of the county and there is often only 1 deputy on duty and response times can run 1 hour or more. Once police arrive I would put the guns down and say that I am too shaken up to answer questions at that time and that I am requesting legal representation and then SHUT UP.

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    Member Array mtnbkr's Avatar
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    In my house, he wouldn\'t get to the \"hallway\" without me seeng him from my computer due to the layout of the house (three story townhome with bedrooms and office on top floor). This is in important distinction though. In Va, we have a duty to retreat to the furthest reaches of our house before using deadly force if possible (perp may be blocking that route...).

    That said, if I were in the situation you described, I would be forced to shoot if the perp raised his weapon towards me. Once I was sure the threat was gone, I would holster the weapon and call 911, alerting the dispatcher that I was armed and would be waiting for the police. After that, I\'d start arranging to have my wife or another family member retain the services of a lawyer for me or do it myself if time allows.

    Chris

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    Nighthawk, I completely agree. I did some time in law school and have several friends who are attorneys. I have seen the aftermath of a justified shooting at the hand sof a civilian in three different states and as such I have taken precautions should such a scenario actually take place at my hands.

    If this scenario happened to me, first would be to make sure the threat was neutralized even though the scenarion says BG is down and staying down and will soon be pushing up daisies. NExt would be a call to my Crim Atty, which would include recommendation for legal advice how to handle the next few hours.

    ~A

  9. #8
    Senior Member Array GoodSamaritan's Avatar
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    With my answer, I beleive that I will post a link to an article. If you don\'t live in Ky you can completely ignore the first two paragraphs, and some of the legal stuff wont apply, but it is very good advice.

    http://www.kc3.com/just_in_case.htm

    W Permit holder finds himself having just survived a shooting encounter with an armed attacker, he should keep several very important points in mind. First, stress to the investigating officers that you \"feared for your life\". This assertion helps to ensure that you meet the basic requirements under Kentucky’s law for self-defense. Prosecutors tend to rely heavily upon the initial impressions of police officers at the scene of a shooting. If a person is believed to have genuinely feared for his life, the prosecutor’s office is unlikely to pursue any prosecution against the victim. If, on the other hand, a person begins to recite dialogue from a Clint Eastwood movie, police may become suspicious and begin to make the victim, rather than the assailant, the target of the investigation.

    Keep your remarks short and to the point when speaking to the police. Provide them with the Joe Friday \"just the facts\" line of information. Sometimes when a witness elaborates on aspects not in evidence he may hurt his own case. Do not tell the police about past \"war stories\" or how you have been \"preparing for a day like this\". Such dialogue only serves to make a generally sympathetic police officer more suspicious of your motives. Stick to the straight facts of the situation.

    Finally, avoid talking to the media unless you feel comfortable in guarding yourself against incriminating remarks. Many times media representatives may be seeking to apply a certain \"bent\" to your story by putting words in your mouth. Television cameras, in particular, are attracted to the sensational. The image of the gun slinging cowboy, while certainly not a negative image in most people’s minds, can be manipulated by unscrupulous sources in the media to work against your case. Reporters will often attempt to portray individuals who carry concealed firearms for self-protection as acting out their boyhood John Wayne fantasies. If you find yourself falling into such a media trap, simply refer the reporters to KC3 media chairman Kraig Keller. Kraig can field questions in a safe way so as not to endanger your case.

    The vast majority of citizens who are CCDW permit holders will never have the occasion to use their weapons in a violent confrontation. However, for the few who do, it is important to know how to react once the shooting is over. Use your own common sense as well as the points mentioned above and things should work out just fine. Remember, most law enforcement as well as the vast majority of the public are on your side. Don’t turn these groups against your case by making ill-timed remarks. Sometimes the most difficult obstacles to overcome are the ones encountered after you re-holster your weapon.


    This is taken from the the Kc3.org website.


    Back to my answer.
    I would make sure the guy didn\'t have a buddy who would make sure the BG\'s gun didn\'t disappear. Then then call 911 and retreat to the room with the computer and barricade the door. I would then hit the power switch on my computer. You don\'t want to appear to have been \"gunning for someone\" by a rookie cop who thinks civilians should not have guns in the first place.

    When asked questions I would state the bare facts and stress that I feared for my life.

  10. #9
    Member Array coma's Avatar
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    First off I would move the weapon away from the body (not touching it with my hands), while doing this I would be looking and listening for any signs of more BG\'s.

    Then I guess I would fall back into the computer room and call 911(like the poster says” I don’t call 911\", but I better this time.) and explain what happened and where it happened.

    If the coast is clear while on the phone, I would check on the down BG, to see if he really is dead, to inform the 911 people of who to send.(Police, paramedics, or the coroner)
    Next I would have to call a lawyer (or call my family to have them start looking for a good lawyer for me. I may not have time.)

    Then I would have to turn on all the lights and wait for the police to get there, only when they got there would I disarm my self.


    How did i do?

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array KC135's Avatar
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    With a couple of dogs, believe I would have had considerable warning however:

    Guns are on my person, never on desk, as this is posted, three guns are on my person.

    Dead??? How do you know??

    Is/was he alone?? Need to know.

    Where is the weapon he had?? Can it be reached with either of his hands?

    If you were at your computer, use the phone, 911.

    If weapon is not accessable to home invader, and he does seem to be out of the fight, I, because I am an EMT, will see if I can render aid.

    I would also call my attorney. Next call one of my sons. Both are within 5 to 10 minutes of house. Boys will activate my \'safety net\'.

    Upon police arrival, I WILL KEEP MY MOUTH SHUT. If police get insistant about a statement, I\'ll mention my heart condition and suggest a trip to the hospital. No statement will be given until my attorney [criminal attorney] is present.

  12. #11
    Member Array Jacob Lee's Avatar
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    Make sure he is incapacitated/dead, clear his weapon away from the body, check for other \"visitors\" and call 911, let them know which person I was and ask what they would like me to do when the police arrive, as far as my weapon and position. Even though it is a little late, I would probably want to know that it truly was an intruder, and try to ID without touching or disturbing the scene if I could. I would call my brothers and let them know about the situation, and then call my attorney. I would talk as little as possible until the adrenaline eased back, and if someone insisted, I would ask to go to the hospital or ER.

  13. #12
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    According to an instructor and a criminal defense attorney that visited us, it should go something like this:

    If the invader had a gun, which he did, kick it away from the body. Don\'t pick it up or in any way handle it, simply get it away from the body. Insure that all of your other handguns are securely locked up in your gun safe. Put your own gun down near the front door of your home and don\'t pick it back up.

    Call 911 and tell them something like, \"an armed man entered my home and threatened me with a gun, forcing me to shoot him.\" Ask for an ambulance and the police and tell them you will be waiting for them outside, in the front of your home. You and anyone else in the house should wait outside. The 911 operator will want to keep you on the phone. Don\'t stay on the line. If you have a spouse, remind him/her where your \"CCW related file\" is which should contain your training records, attorney contact, etc. Have them call the attorney after the police have left your home (presumably with you).

    If at all possible be sitting when the police arrive. Keep your hands visible at all times. Do not put them in your pockets or make any sudden moves. All they know is that someone was shot. They don\'t, at this point know why or any of the details of the situation. When questioned tell them only what you told the 911 operator. Tell them you are not feeling very well (which will probably be true) and that you are having chest pains, shortness of breath or just \"cannot calm down\". The medical personnel will upon finding that there is nothing to be done for the bad guy turn their attention to you. Tell them the same thing you told the police regarding your medical condition and ask to be taken to the hospital. Same story with the emergency room staff when you get there and ask if they can give you something to calm you down. At the point you are medicated, the police, who will, of course, be there waiting for you to get the a-ok so they can begin their detailed questioning know that you will not be responsible for anything you say at that point. You will probably be kept for observation after medication, giving your attorney time to make contact.

    When you speak with your attorney, ask him to find out from the police the identity of the person you shot and to file a lawsuit against him (his family) for violating your constitutional rights. At the same time, ask him to begin your bancruptcy proceedings. These are two very important points in protecting your assets. The reality today is that the first one to file the lawsuit is usually the winner. You need to be the first to file. It will make the family of the deceased want to distance themselves from the act their son/father/relative committed. Your attorney will then have a bargaining chip to use, ie., \"My client will drop all claims against the deceased man\'s estate (them) if you will agree not to file suit against my client in the incident.\" More often than not, according to the attorney, they will agree to it. In case they don\'t, you do have the bancruptcy that has been filed. The family of the deceased will not be able to file a civil lawsuit against you once the bancruptcy has been filed. You are, in both of these strategies, covering your ass and protecting your assets.

    Back to the police. When the police finally are able to question you (after you are out of the influence of the medication) your attorney and you will have spoken, at length, and you will know what to say/not say and he will be present during the police questioning. With the tools and techniques available in today\'s forensic/crime scene investigation field, the police will probably just need you to verify what their crime scene investigation found.

    Remember the file \"CCW related file\"? This record of your knowledge of the law, your firearms proficiency record, your related training (more the better) will now be used by your attorney to demonstrate to the county attorney that you are a law-abiding citizen, with a legal firearm, protecting yourself (and your family) in a violent confrontation. That you understand the law surrounding the use of deadly force, and have properly trained to act with only the degree of force required. You, of course, spent you own money to insure that you were able to handle a situation in a manner safe to other innocent people in the are, blah, blah, blah.... If you have a good attorney, he will probably make the case that you are a good guy that reacted correctly and the county attorney will decide not to file charges.

    WooHoo! The county attorney is not filing charges and the family of the deceased agreed not to file a lawsuit. But sheesh, I just filed bancruptcy! Withdraw it. It\'s that simple. It served it\'s purpose (potentially, if not absolutely) and you have no need to carry it through. Now all you have to bear is that your attorney\'s fees have probably dumped much, if not all, of your savings. And that you took someone\'s life. Give yourself a break; if it had to be done, be satisfied that you and your family are alive....

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    I have in the past been told to, and I\'m serious, above all other things, be crying my little eyes out when the police arrive and blubbering something to the effect of \"he was gonna kill me\" over and over again.

    Don\'t know if that would really help but if the policeman writes that down on his little notepad you were crying and blubbering, how\'s that going to look to a jury trying to see you as a stone hearted killer?

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    Senior Member Array GoodSamaritan's Avatar
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    Great posts from all, however I beleive Bumper took the prize this time.

    It would be interesting to get a to-do list from an LEO and/or a DA\'s perspective.

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    Crying and/or babbling would probably be good, Euclidean. Police officers do take notes regarding your appearance and demeanor.

    I certainly don\'t take credit for any of this, GoodSamaritan, a CCW instructor who is also a criminal defense attorney came up with (or adopted) this strategy. They went completely through it with no explanation until they had given us the whole thing. Quite frankly I thought he was nuts on the filing suit on the BGs family and filing bancrupty until it was all explained. When questioned about the costs involved in those two items he told us that the cost of just those two actions were so minor compared to the final attorney fees ($35-50,000) that they weren\'t even worth considering..... yikes!!

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