as seen on tv

as seen on tv

This is a discussion on as seen on tv within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The story I am about to tell comes from the "stand your ground" documentary. This was one of their training stations A man and his ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array Ouijonbu's Avatar
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    Lightbulb as seen on tv

    The story I am about to tell comes from the "stand your ground" documentary. This was one of their training stations
    A man and his wife was walking and a group of guys walked up and said give me your wallet homie, and pulled out a gun. They took the wallet and started to leave, when the man turned around to chase and fire at the BG's. All of this is in a training environment so it didn't happen in the real world. So the 50thousand dollar question is, do we have a right to chase and/or shoot at the attackers after being robbed? the man who was in the training incident said" if they have the right to come towards me with a gun, the I have the right to go towards them with a gun" or words to that effect.


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    Senior Member Array WannabeaCPA's Avatar
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    In my CHL class, my instructer stated he would shoot the man in the back to prevent the BG from turing to expose of the witnesses.

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    Distinguished Member Array lionround's Avatar
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    NO. You don't have the right to pursue and/or draw and fire at that point. The threat is retreating. You are not a LEO.

    The "right" time to draw and fire would have been when the BGs have a gun pointed at you or yours. If you are willing to draw against the drop. That one is a tough call.

    The short answer is NO.
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    VIP Member Array high pockets's Avatar
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    IANAL, but IMO, once the BGs turn and leave, the threat of injury has been reduced to the point that chasing them would constitute a completely new situation.
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    I would say no, I don't want to shoot someone. IMO the threat has left(this is scenario based), your life is no longer in danger and you're not justified to use deadly force. If you go after them YOU might be labeled as the "aggressor".
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    I believe this is legal in Texas only if the stolen property cannot be replaced, i.g. family heirlooms. However even in Texas I wouldn't recommend it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouijonbu View Post
    The story I am about to tell comes from the "stand your ground" documentary. This was one of their training stations
    A man and his wife was walking and a group of guys walked up and said give me your wallet homie, and pulled out a gun. They took the wallet and started to leave, when the man turned around to chase and fire at the BG's. All of this is in a training environment so it didn't happen in the real world. So the 50thousand dollar question is, do we have a right to chase and/or shoot at the attackers after being robbed? the man who was in the training incident said" if they have the right to come towards me with a gun, the I have the right to go towards them with a gun" or words to that effect.


    The question is at what point do I no longer reasonably fear for my life? Is the violent felon fleeing, or merely deciding whether or not to turn back around and execute witnesses? Perhaps he is retreating toward cover before turning and firing.
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouijonbu View Post
    ... question is, do we have a right to chase and/or shoot at the attackers after being robbed? the man who was in the training incident said" if they have the right to come towards me with a gun, the I have the right to go towards them with a gun" or words to that effect.



    Well heading "towards someone with a gun" unlawfully is the clincher: that'll be seen as unlawful every time.

    Of course, in many states, clear proximity doesn't equate to clear retreat simply because the deadly felon's back has turned or he's a few feet farther away.

    Consider, say, a robbery in a shop, restaurant, bank or similar spot, in which a few people are easily within "attack" distances of the perp. Everyone is under direct deadly threat so long as the perp is there, despite technically having moved away from you. The threat's still there, and it's still deadly. Turning/moving hardly means the violent felon cannot still be deadly violent, with ease, given the proximity. Perps have turned then fired upon people while they appeared to be moving further away (possibly retreating). Are you prepared to bet your life on the perp not doing that, while still clearly close enough to do exactly that? IMO, taking action at that point is still reasonable and easily justifiable, so long as your statutes don't specifically make such action unlawful.

    Myself, in states where I've lived, given the state statutes I have had to deal with, I wouldn't have much problem turning the tables on a violent felon who's still within a few yards of me. Though, that quickly changes the moment the perp is clearly and irrefutably retreating and exiting stage-right, or clearly beyond reasonable distances for continuing to be deadly threatening. Such as, I can't imagine ever being able to justify firing at a fleeing felon in a car that's starting to speed away, short of living in state that clearly always supports strong fleeing-felon responses. But short of that sort of thing, where it's absolutely clear the threat hasn't yet withdrawn, where I reasonably believe the threat's still present ... and I'll act accordingly.

    What would I do in the OP's sort of situation? IMO, would depend on proximity, BG's behavioral indicators, degree of threat I felt from the BG (despite turning or changing location).


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    The question is at what point do I no longer reasonably fear for my life? Is the violent felon fleeing, or merely deciding whether or not to turn back around and execute witnesses? Perhaps he is retreating toward cover before turning and firing.
    ^ This.
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    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    ...different answers from state to state...in TX, you can shoot him...he's still in the process of the armed robbery, still armed, still with the loot, and still a threat...now, if he throws down the loot and the gun and yells "I'm sorry, don't shoot me"...the robbery's over and you can move on (SAFELY) to the arrest...

    ...read your laws on deadly force CAREFULLY...the answer's in there...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ouijonbu View Post
    The story I am about to tell comes from the "stand your ground" documentary. This was one of their training stations
    A man and his wife was walking and a group of guys walked up and said give me your wallet homie, and pulled out a gun. They took the wallet and started to leave, when the man turned around to chase and fire at the BG's. All of this is in a training environment so it didn't happen in the real world. So the 50thousand dollar question is, do we have a right to chase and/or shoot at the attackers after being robbed? the man who was in the training incident said" if they have the right to come towards me with a gun, the I have the right to go towards them with a gun" or words to that effect.



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    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rigel42 View Post
    I believe this is legal in Texas only if the stolen property cannot be replaced, i.g. family heirlooms. However even in Texas I wouldn't recommend it.
    ...not correct...read the law and you'll have it right...

  11. #11
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    Victim: "Hey homie, don't leave yet"

    Dirtbag: (turns around) "Why"?

    Victim: BANG


    just kidding...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snub44 View Post
    ...not correct...read the law and you'll have it right...
    Its kind of irrelevant. If armed bad guys are running away from me, I don't care what "stuff" of mine they have, I'm going the other way and calling 911. Call me chicken if you must, but I keep my insurance up to date.

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    Quote Originally Posted by high pockets View Post
    IANAL, but IMO, once the BGs turn and leave, the threat of injury has been reduced to the point that chasing them would constitute a completely new situation.
    I agree with this , and this is my training .
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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouijonbu View Post
    The story I am about to tell comes from the "stand your ground" documentary. This was one of their training stations
    A man and his wife was walking and a group of guys walked up and said give me your wallet homie, and pulled out a gun. They took the wallet and started to leave, when the man turned around to chase and fire at the BG's. All of this is in a training environment so it didn't happen in the real world. So the 50thousand dollar question is, do we have a right to chase and/or shoot at the attackers after being robbed? the man who was in the training incident said" if they have the right to come towards me with a gun, the I have the right to go towards them with a gun" or words to that effect.


    Once the threat is over, its over.

    Can you shoot them if they flee, Yep, but you will land in jail for that. Can you pursue them, then shoot them into the ground, Yep, Once again landing in jail. Now, the BG pulls his gun, demands your wallet, you comply. He then starts to walk or run away and turns and points the weapon at you. Game on. See the difference, One is a threat, the other is a threat that has come and gone....
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  15. #15
    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    ...the law is not irrelevant...there are those who choose to be ignorant of what it says...and that's their choice...but the facts of what the law says are a vital part of making informed choices as to which of our options we exercise...if we tell folks what it says, it's only fair that we read it and tell them correctly, instead of guessing...
    Quote Originally Posted by rigel42 View Post
    Its kind of irrelevant. If armed bad guys are running away from me, I don't care what "stuff" of mine they have, I'm going the other way and calling 911. Call me chicken if you must, but I keep my insurance up to date.
    USM1976 likes this.

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