'Warning shot" / "Supressive Fire" in 'Mob' Atack Reevaluating Conventional wisdom :(

'Warning shot" / "Supressive Fire" in 'Mob' Atack Reevaluating Conventional wisdom :(

This is a discussion on 'Warning shot" / "Supressive Fire" in 'Mob' Atack Reevaluating Conventional wisdom :( within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; A) I do understand the 'Conventional Wisdom' on this subject. B) I think 'Times have changed' C) See this article from the Paramus Post in ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array 12smile's Avatar
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    'Warning shot" / "Supressive Fire" in 'Mob' Atack Reevaluating Conventional wisdom :(

    A) I do understand the 'Conventional Wisdom' on this subject.

    B) I think 'Times have changed'

    C) See this article from the Paramus Post in NJ.

    http://www.paramuspost.com/article.p...30828114322287

    here's a small quote

    The murder of the Australian man in Oklahoma was horrific, but not unique. Or even rare.

    A similar episode of black mob violence happened just a few days ago in Memphis. And a few days before that in St. Paul. And before that in Burlington. And before that in Delaware, New Haven, Madison, Denver, Flint, Peoria, Springfield, Greensboro, Green Bay, and on and on and on.
    This is a long list with more than 500 cases of recent black mob violence in more than 100 cities, big and small, many on video - and all unreported as being part of an epidemic of black mob violence throughout America.
    "Beat Whitey Night," for example: Two summers ago, black mobs beat and robbed dozens of patrons at the Iowa State Fair for three nights in a row. They also attacked police.
    Ever hear about it?
    Didn't think so. That is because most editors are not comfortable with the words "black mob violence." No matter that black mob violence exists plainly and exponentially out of proportion.
    D) I have NEVER heard any instructor recommend a 'Warning shot' or 'Suppressive Fire' as a practical technique for self defense....It's all 'center-of-mass' no head shots.

    E) This is disturbing and I do feel like I need to 'go back to the drawing board' and PRACTICE whatever 'revised' tactics I come up with.

    F) I was in a defensive firearm use situation where I shot the bad guy....first hand experience...you will have NO OPPORTUNITY TO 'THINK' you will do what you practice....

    G) Your thoughtful opinions welcome....I would hesitate to ask Massad Ayoob or other prominent expert as I think they would be concerned with promoting 'Heresy' and I think 'Warning Shot / Suppressive Fire' IS HERESY.......BUT WHISKEY, TANGO, FOXTROT....WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN FACED W/ 50 THUGS WHO WANT TO TURN YOU BRAIN INTO PEA SOUP?

    H) Wish I didn't need to post this....the answer will be a year or more in coming....:(
    USM1976 likes this.


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array 357and40's Avatar
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    Why not suppressive fire?
    How many rounds do you carry that you could expend several as a deterrent?

    How will you account for where the bullet(s) land?

    Would you not be better served attempting CoM on the most prevalent threat and hoping that one going down will stop the threat from the remaining 49?

    If there were 50 after me I would be running rather than shooting.

    SA is your best friend and a mob is not quiet even at a distance.

    We know the press is afraid of reporting facts on anything. Why would you expect them to report on a situation that could enrage a mob?
    Secret Spuk likes this.
    "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."
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    Member Array 12smile's Avatar
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    I carry 23 rounds of 9mm. I'm considering placing a box of 100 and 2 additional mags in the car. (this is the kind of stuff I'm considering'unconventional' )

    I'm not ready to change anything but...the 'Wilding' 'Flash-Mob' trend needs to be acknowledged or dismissed and I can't ignore it.

    It's on the front burner because we just had an episode in St. Paul where a 26 yr old man has been in a coma for 3 weeks (little hope of a normal recovery....his life as a 'human' is over) and we're in shock.

    Could this possibly be a 'Zimmerman backlash' ??? I'd say better than 50/50 it is.

    Thanks for your reply.

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    I fail to follow the logic. Why put shots into the ground or into the air when the threat is at chest level?
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
    William T. Sherman

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    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    If a "black, white, yellow" whatever color mob is trying to attack me or mine, I will start to turn it RED in earnest. One round fired as a warning is one round wasted IMO.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

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    Member Array 12smile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I fail to follow the logic. Why put shots into the ground or into the air when the threat is at chest level?
    You don't wind up like Zimmerman?

    No dead bodies but you've scattered the 'Rats'

    You now have the Felony of a weapon discharge in the city but Zimmerman could have gotten more than 20 years.

    This is the kind of uncomfortable thinking that I think is ahead. :)

    Thanks

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    VIP Member Array blitzburgh's Avatar
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    Warning shot as in one of your mob members just got shot and you're about to be next if you continue? Sure.

    Otherwise, no. This situation would rank pretty damn high up on the list of "I wouldn't want to waste ammo in.." situations.
    "Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." - Benjamin Franklin
    "Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn." - C.S. Lewis

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    Member Array 12smile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottabkiddin View Post
    If a "black, white, yellow" whatever color mob is trying to attack me or mine, I will start to turn it RED in earnest. One round fired as a warning is one round wasted IMO.
    That is absolutely the conventional wisdom and Is my current assumption.

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    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 12smile View Post
    That is absolutely the conventional wisdom and Is my current assumption.
    If I'm doing nothing wrong and minding my own business, then outta the blue a group of people turn into mindless thugs hell bent on hurting, or possibly killing me, IMO each one of um deserve no less then the full Monty of my ire, and that of my Glock.
    12smile, Bad Bob, oneshot and 3 others like this.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

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    Quote Originally Posted by 12smile View Post
    You don't wind up like Zimmerman?

    No dead bodies but you've scattered the 'Rats'

    You now have the Felony of a weapon discharge in the city but Zimmerman could have gotten more than 20 years.

    This is the kind of uncomfortable thinking that I think is ahead. :)

    Thanks
    If you don't want to wind up like Zimmerman, don't give multiple, lengthy statements to investigators without the benefit of legal counsel.
    If the rats haven't introduced deadly force prior to your warning shot, they can legally shoot back at you. Then there will be a dead body--yours.
    Your felony of a weapon discharge loses your gun rights forever. Zimmerman was acquitted and later furnished with $12k by an Ohio group to re-arm.
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
    William T. Sherman

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    It's true, times have changed, just in my lifetime they have changed, and for the worse. Life is more dangerous, no doubt.

    I don't have a good answer for you, but you're thinking out of the box, and looking for alternatives/options can be beneficial.
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

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    TVJ
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    A racial mob attack against myself/wife? And I/we cannot get away relatively safely, attacked or cornered:

    My warning shots are for the rest of the crowd that sees me zippering and working my way to the perps head. Knees, hips, up to head. Whatever I can get in CQB.

    I am going to focus on extreme and efficient violence against the closest threat. That, coupled with the noise of the gunshots will greatly raise the odds that the roaches scatter thereby reducing risk further. If not, at least I have one out of the fight for my/wifes life. If another attacks, rinse wash repeat. Quickly and efficiently defend until the theats stop. Once they scatter, I holster as we move to safety and call 911.

    I do think warning shots have there place in specific circumstances. To me, group/disparity of force racial violence is a lethal force greenlighted situation that I can legally articulate (Texas law). I prefer to find a fast exit. However, getting taken to the ground by 3 4 5+ aggressors is terribly bad for victim in a large mob scene. Do a search on Liveleak if you need visuals.

    Greg Ellifritz (Limatunes trains with him) has some thoughtful comments here though I am not a fan of pepper spray as one option he mentions. Tactics behind knife before gun is thoughtful:

    Surviving The Flash Mob | Active Response Training

    Mob Violence Tips Covered on the Survival Mom Radio Hour | Active Response Training

    About Greg:

    Greg Ellifritz is Active Response Training’s President and Primary Instructor.

    Greg is a veteran police officer, spending 13 years as the full time tactical training officer for his central Ohio agency. In that position, he was responsible for developing and instructing all of the in-service training for a 54-officer police department. Prior to his training position, he served as patrol officer, bike patrol officer, bike patrol coordinator, and field training officer for his agency. He currently serves as a patrol officer, firearms instructor, and precision marksman.

    He has been an active instructor for the Tactical Defense Institute since 2001 and a lead instructor for TDI’s ground fighting, knife fighting, active shooter, impact weapons, and extreme close quarters shooting classes.

    Greg holds instructor, master instructor, or armorer certifications in more than 75 different weapons systems, defensive tactics programs, and law enforcement specialty areas. In addition to these instructor certifications, Greg has trained with many of the leading firearms and edged weapons instructors in the country.
    12smile and Mike1956 like this.
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  13. #13
    Member Array 12smile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ppkheat View Post
    It's true, times have changed, just in my lifetime they have changed, and for the worse. Life is more dangerous, no doubt.

    I don't have a good answer for you, but you're thinking out of the box, and looking for alternatives/options can be beneficial.
    'The only way to 'win' a gunfight is to not-be-there'

    I change my behavior to AVOID conflict...instead of shopping after dark at a grocery store 4 blocks from home I travel 4.4 miles to a safer location that doesn't need to post an officer and a squad car in the parking lot.

    I anticipate practice and training in 'Verbal Commands' in situations where I would be confronted by multiple attackers....multiple attackers, I also think that is the 'new normal' as well.
    Easy8, 357and40 and Secret Spuk like this.

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    You can not equate a mob to the Zimmerman case. Had Zimmerman been being attacked by multiple persons there would have been no question of SD. That said, 1 person or multiple, if the situation is one that requires drawing, I'm going for a COM shot, not a "Gosh, he's got a gun. Let's run away!" waste of round.
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  15. #15
    Member Array 12smile's Avatar
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    I'm from Minneapolis...this is disturbing...same author with the focus on Minneapolis...he's got the specific details right...

    Colin Flaherty - Epidemic of black mob violence: White Girl Bleed a Lot.

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