Real life scenario , What would you do ?

This is a discussion on Real life scenario , What would you do ? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The link will take you to a real senario that happened to someone , I know that "No knock warrants" have been discussed in great ...

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Thread: Real life scenario , What would you do ?

  1. #1
    Member Array speedlinehobbies's Avatar
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    Real life scenario , What would you do ?

    The link will take you to a real senario that happened to someone , I know that "No knock warrants" have been discussed in great detail , But i just want to know what you feel would have been appropriate response , and at what point ?
    Either way you would respond , i think i would have to err on the side of my safety .

    http://www.countypress.com/stories/1...61122002.shtml
    Anyone make a IWB holster for my AR ??

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Jeebus!

    I carry when I take my Akita out for his nighttime walk which usually is between 2 and 3AM.
    I've often felt silly about doinig so as we are only in my yard most often just away from my front or side door.

    I'll feel silly no more. :(

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    I'm afraid in this situation, wanting to be a law abiding citizen, most likely i would be a victim too. I just posted in another thread that I refuse to be a victim, looks like I just got proven wrong.

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    Senior Member Array PapaScout's Avatar
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    Talk about a nightmare situation. Whom do you trust?

    If given the opportunity I would call 911 before opening the door telling the ones on the other side of the door that I was doing so to confirm that they are legit.

    But if they kick in the door then what? Shoot?

    At this point I would also most likely become a victim unless smarter heads that mine can come up with a game plan.

    Get to it! :)
    "If you so much as bunny hop I'll cut your heart out!" Billy Bob Thornton in The Last Real Cowboys

    "I carry a gun for the same reason that I carry health insurance and a cell phone - be prepared."

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    Member Array mbj0186's Avatar
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    Here's my take on it. You have ONE FBI agent, and ONE police officer. Somebody telling me "this is a raid" and there's only two of them, each one being from different departments is clue number one. If it was a real raid there would be SWAT, and cop cars everywhere, not two guys. Number two would be that the "officer" not being in uniform. Number three would be them shooting my dogs for no reason even when they aren't a threat. Number four is him shooting my dog while he's in arms. Number five, I know there is no reason for my house to be raided by anyone in LE, especially at 1:30 in the morning. First thing I would have done is closed and locked the door when I heard gun shots, then I would have dialled 911, then I would have asked for a warrant. If they tried to bust in for what I know is BS and NO reason whatsoever, 2 headshots....over.
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    Ex Member Array quantum36's Avatar
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    Where did this occur at?

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    bae
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    I live in a remote rural area.

    I know the local law enforcement folks by name.

    I am a law-abiding citizen, and have no reason to expect "a raid".

    I don't see a warrant and ID, well, there's going to be trouble, for all concerned. Random gunfire directed at my dogs in my front yard at night isn't going to be a good way to start off the conversation.

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    MBJ,

    As to reason for a raid there have been multiple times in past and recent where real law enforcement local, state, and federal have raided a citizens home with multiple police and cars out front as well only to hit thee wrong address or doing so based on incorrect or even bogus information.

    As well last year there was a case in GA where real but crooked cops with a fake warrant raided the home of a drug dealer (illegally) and spent hours torturing him as they attempted to rob him of his product for their own use and force him to confess to crimes he did not actually commit. In his specific case he was very lucky in that he was smart enough to keep a mini-recorder at hand hidden in the event of being harrassed/shakendown by police which he later reported would happen regularly so he decided to record them the next time it happened. The next time was this time as stated and even as the recorder ran out of tape he did record them beating and shocking him for 45 minutes (of a total of IIRC 3hrs) and yelling at him to confess verbally to crimes they were telling him he committed. As well they were caught on the tape talkign about how they were there to take his drugs for them to resell and that they were going to beat the blood out of him as well. It was a real life scenario straight out of the an episode of 'The Shield'.
    I'll try to find the news item for you as it was from last year or so and IIRC occurred in GA.

    Stuff like this and more does IRL occur to otherwise law abiding (at the moment) citizens like you, me, and even a pastor sleeping in bed with his wife too. :(

    I too currently live in a rural area but am not fortunate enough to know my local police personally, which one shouldn't have to do to feel safe in their home from the police or police action.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  10. #9
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    Exclamation The other half of the story

    http://www.countypress.com/stories/1...61201001.shtml

    Lapeer County Sheriff's deputies tracked down and arrested two men suspected of torturing and robbing Hunters Creek Road residents, shooting two of their pet dogs in the process early morning Monday.
    Evidence developed by Lapeer County Sheriff's investigators tied David Taylor, 34, of Cass City and Dwayne Rocca, 38, of Fairgrove to the incident.

    Taylor was arrested Wednesday afternoon at a Lapeer County residence while Rocca was apprehended Wednesday evening at his Tuscola County residence by deputies from Lapeer and Tuscola counties along with Fairgrove Police Department officers.

    Authorities believe the incident began about 1:30 a.m. when one male resident, 25, happened to let two of his three pet pit bull dogs outside of the rented home in Lapeer Township. Residents of the home include the male, his wife, 19, and their son, 2. The couple's two male friends, both 17, also live at the home.

    The man heard shots outside and Mea, one dog, was shot. She was later found lying in a pool of blood on the back porch. The second dog, Homeboy, escaped and wasn't injured.

    The male who let the dogs out opened the door and saw a man with wearing a hat and shirt that had 'FBI' printed on it. A second man wore a T-shirt that said 'Police.'

    The man wearing the FBI hat told the resident, "This is a raid." The homeowner picked up his third dog Choka, and asked the intruder, who he thought was from the FBI, not to shoot.

    The victim thought the owner might mistake her for an attack dog, said Lapeer County Sheriff's Lt. Gary Parks.

    While the male held his pet, one of the intruders shot Choka in the neck.

    The man bound the males in the group with duct tape and covered their eyes. The intruders used a Taser gun and repeatedly stunned two of the males to obtain information about where money was located. The female, who is six months pregnant, was placed in another room with the boy, 2. While they were away from the group, the intruder told the husband he'd stun his pregnant wife and child unless he complied.

    The suspects ransacked the home and took stereo equipment, a game system, clothing, and an undisclosed amount of cash. After they left, the woman freed the males from the duct tape and called 911.

    The two males suffered numerous Taser burns on their bodies, but sustained no serious injuries. Mea is dead, but Choka may recover.

    Taylor and Rocca were lodged in the Lapeer County Jail, and expected to be arraigned on charges soon. Rocca is currently hospitalized as a result of injuries he sustained.

    <break> <break>

    These guys need to rot in a dark, dank hole...never to be seen again...

  11. #10
    Member Array walther1's Avatar
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    ***? Where do I live? Crazy is all I can say.

    No way out of this scenario for me. I would probably be a victim.
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  12. #11
    Member Array speedlinehobbies's Avatar
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    BAE , i kindof agree with you . I too have no reason to expect a raid at my home , and shooting at my dogs would definately be a bad start to anything .

    Im not sure their is a right response to this senario , If you shoot to defend yourself and it is LEO , you stand a good chance of dying . If you do not defend yourself and it is a BG , you stand a good chance of dying .

    Doesnt sound like good odds either way .
    Anyone make a IWB holster for my AR ??

  13. #12
    Member Array produman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedlinehobbies View Post
    BAE , i kindof agree with you . I too have no reason to expect a raid at my home , and shooting at my dogs would definately be a bad start to anything .

    Im not sure their is a right response to this senario , If you shoot to defend yourself and it is LEO , you stand a good chance of dying . If you do not defend yourself and it is a BG , you stand a good chance of dying .

    Doesnt sound like good odds either way .
    Wow talk about no win......The dogs being shot has to be the give away. But if you are have asleep are you really gonna realize it?
    I feel bad for these home owners, nobody deserves this kind of treatment.
    "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I won't."
    General George Patton

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    This Really Hits Home...

    Quote Originally Posted by speedlinehobbies View Post
    The link will take you to a real senario that happened to someone , I know that "No knock warrants" have been discussed in great detail , But i just want to know what you feel would have been appropriate response , and at what point ?
    Either way you would respond , i think i would have to err on the side of my safety .

    http://www.countypress.com/stories/1...61122002.shtml
    The 'dirtbag' from Fairgrove lives where I was the school superintendent for five years...

    No-knock warrant to means that someone coming through my door is DEFINITELY going to get shot...we'll sort out the details later...

    OMO...but a strong one...

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  15. #14
    Senior Member Array GoodSamaritan's Avatar
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    Reinforced entrances, and a very strong safe room with a cell phone sounds like the only real option to me. Provided you have time to get into it.

  16. #15
    Member Array Only Glock's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    Talk about a lose-lose situation, this is a nightmare either way you look at it. Here is my PERSONAL take on it, and reflects noone's opinion but my own.
    If it is a LEGITIMATE no-knock warrant service, there will be a large force coming into your home hard, fast, and loud, and will leave no doubt that it is law enforcement. They will probably be coming into the front and back doors simultaneously, stacked as they come in. It will in all probability be the SWAT team coming in, the point officer carrying a large ballistic shield that says POLICE or SWAT. If you see that, you can probably be assured that it is LE coming in. If they are in the wrong house, you will probably come out of it with more money than you had before.
    I cannot see 2 or 3 officers in plain clothes, coming in unassisted on a warrant service after dark. From their standpoint it is tactical suicide. Here is where I rely on something that alot of people dismiss: instinct. If I instinctively feel that it is not legitimate law enforcement, I am going to do whatever is necessary to defend my family. In this case, there were several "tells" that should have been a giveaway that these were not legitimate law enforcement officers. First, shooting (apparently) docile, nonthreatening dogs, second, shooting a dog in the owner's arms, the fact that they were apparently not wearing body armor, calmly telling the homeowner that "this is a raid" instead of loudly ordering him to the ground... These were dead giveaways that should have thrown up a huge red flag. I would have drawn, ordered them to the ground, and yelled for someone to call 911. If they were legit LE, then it is something that would be sorted out later. If they had entered before I could ascertain they were legitimate LE, then there would be 2 dirtbags lying bleeding on my floor. In a face to face, unless I see some valid police ID or uniform, they are suspect.
    In my opinion, it comes down to common sense and gut feelings, instinct, whatever. Would legitimate law enforcement break down your door if you had done nothing wrong? Sure, it is a possibility. Rare, but it does happen. Should you shoot if it is legitimate law enforcement with a valid warrant? Not a chance. You will end up justifiably dead. Period. If they are legit, they are not going to be the first to use deadly force. Cops are NOT a bunch of trigger happy paid thugs. If you suspect they are not law enforcement, should you shoot? If you feel your life or your family's lives are in danger, absolutely. In this case, these 2 idiots were definitely not law enforcement, as was apparent in the first couple of paragraphs. Were they a deadly threat? Absolutely. I would have shot them before allowing them into my home.
    When you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.
    From the essay "TRIBES" by Bill Whittle

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