INDIANA LAW QUESTION...Defending Property

INDIANA LAW QUESTION...Defending Property

This is a discussion on INDIANA LAW QUESTION...Defending Property within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Here is the statute for those who wish to read before commenting. Indiana Code 35-41-3 It seems a tad confusing in the following scenario. As ...

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    Distinguished Member Array RightsEroding's Avatar
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    INDIANA LAW QUESTION...Defending Property

    Here is the statute for those who wish to read before commenting.

    Indiana Code 35-41-3


    It seems a tad confusing in the following scenario.

    As you leave the convenience store, you see someone attempting to steal your vehicle..(a felony in Indiana)

    Are you justified in using deadly force to terminate the commission of this felony?

    (e) With respect to property other than a dwelling, curtilage, or an occupied motor vehicle, a person is justified in using reasonable force against any other person if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to immediately prevent or terminate the other person's trespass on or criminal interference with property lawfully
    I ask this question after reading about a home owner who shot someone who was attempting to steal his air conditioner.

    There appears to me a inter-mixing of legal terms that don't seem to co-exist very well; that being (Deadly Force) and (Reasonable Force)

    I do know in Indiana, the "Castle Doctrine" extends to ones personal vehicle; so I wonder how this might play into this scenario.

    Obviously is this particular scenario, the owner of the vehicle is under no imminent threat of deadly force and (could) simply walk away and let insurance cover it...BUT; it appears in Indiana one may halt the commission of a felony to personal property.

    I'm not looking to debate the right or wrong of this scenario; only how some of you interpret the law.
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    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    ...what do Indiana's DEADLY force laws say?

    http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/cod.../ar41/ch3.html does answer your question, but you need to read it all...


    ...would you share with us the story of someone shooting someone stealing an air conditioner, please?

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    Ex Member Array IndianaSig's Avatar
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    You've asked and then answered your own question. The code clearly states that REASONABLE force is allowed but that to use DEADLY force, you must also qualify under section C above. So, to answer your question that you already answered, no, you cannot use deadly force to stop someone from stealing your car unless you are in it during the attempt. The code is clearly written. Don't quote parts of it without reading all of it.
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    There are some lawyers on ingunowners.com. That might be a better place to ask.
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    Ex Member Array IndianaSig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mb1900 View Post
    There are some lawyers on ingunowners.com. That might be a better place to ask.
    ingunowners.com might well be the worst gun forum on all of the Internet. It would be a terrible place to ask any question for which you hoped to receive a correct, coherent reply.

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    I interpret as you do..so what is the difference; the legal difference between (Reasonable) and (Deadly)

    Punching them in the face to stop the felony? Is that reasonable? Is (Reasonable) anything short of deadly force?

    BTW..I DID read the entire statute; yet I see ill defined legal concepts.
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    "When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much." Ronald Reagan

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    Distinguished Member Array RightsEroding's Avatar
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    ) A person is justified in using reasonable force against any other person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
    (1) is justified in using deadly force; and
    (2) does not have a duty to retreat;
    if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony.
    This is where I see some confusion:
    or the commission of a forcible felony.
    "When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much." Ronald Reagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by RightsEroding View Post
    I interpret as you do..so what is the difference; the legal difference between (Reasonable) and (Deadly)

    Punching them in the face to stop the felony? Is that reasonable? Is (Reasonable) anything short of deadly force?

    BTW..I DID read the entire statute; yet I see ill defined legal concepts.
    In Indiana jurisprudence, "reasonable" is defined as that which a common man would find appropriate. Stated another way, it is what a jury would find appropriate at trial. If you punched the guy to keep him from stealing your car, it is reasonable to assume (there are no guarantees in life) that a common man would find that appropriate. However, if you were to hurl a small, nuclear device at the perp, and wipe out 3 city blocks to keep him from stealing your car, you might have a hard time getting a common man at your trial to agree it was reasonable.

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    Ex Member Array IndianaSig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RightsEroding View Post
    This is where I see some confusion:
    For a forcible felony to occur under Indiana law, there is, by definition, more than one actor. In the case of someone stealing your car, while you are not in it, there is only one actor; the thief. There is no forcible felony occurring. Neither you or anyone else is in danger of serious bodily harm.

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    What if you jump in the car before he can take off????
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    Interesting.

    Curious if anyone has heard anything further on the guy who shot another for stealing his AC unit?
    "When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much." Ronald Reagan

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    ...nope...I did ask if you'd mind posting the story for us, but so far, no luck...I'd love to read it...
    Quote Originally Posted by RightsEroding View Post
    Interesting.

    Curious if anyone has heard anything further on the guy who shot another for stealing his AC unit?

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    ...well, an answer from the OP just showed up in the "Police in your home" thread...he's talking not about a homeowner who SHOT someone stealing his a/c, but the recent HOUSTON story where a homeowner shot AT someone for stealing his a/c....

    ...I haven't heard if he got his medal yet...police sure were happy with him...but that's Texas...

    ...that's the third reply tonight I've found in a thread it didn't belong in...wonder if we're experiencing technical difficulties, or is the moon full...
    Last edited by Snub44; September 1st, 2013 at 07:55 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RightsEroding View Post
    Here is the statute for those who wish to read before commenting.

    Indiana Code 35-41-3


    It seems a tad confusing in the following scenario.

    As you leave the convenience store, you see someone attempting to steal your vehicle..(a felony in Indiana)

    Are you justified in using deadly force to terminate the commission of this felony?



    I ask this question after reading about a home owner who shot someone who was attempting to steal his air conditioner.

    There appears to me a inter-mixing of legal terms that don't seem to co-exist very well; that being (Deadly Force) and (Reasonable Force)

    I do know in Indiana, the "Castle Doctrine" extends to ones personal vehicle; so I wonder how this might play into this scenario.

    Obviously is this particular scenario, the owner of the vehicle is under no imminent threat of deadly force and (could) simply walk away and let insurance cover it...BUT; it appears in Indiana one may halt the commission of a felony to personal property.

    I'm not looking to debate the right or wrong of this scenario; only how some of you interpret the law.
    Without reading all of...you know...I'd say NO. Just because most of us are NOT LEO I'd say...

    OTOH what if the owner of said about to be stolen vehicle can't afford vehicle insurance in the first place? He works 60+hours a week+his ole lady works. His kids being kids got no freaking clue what Mom and Dad are having to put up with. Then just for fun AND to mess your heads up a good bit more you add in the DA and the entire LEO force...no matter how y'all sugar coat it Joe Blow and his wife still get screwed by the perp after all is said and done.

    I really could give a rat's azz what state y'all are in...the first or the 57th you are screwed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snub44 View Post
    ...well, an answer from the OP just showed up in the "Police in your home" thread...he's talking not about a homeowner who SHOT someone stealing his a/c, but the recent HOUSTON story where a homeowner shot AT someone for stealing his a/c....

    ...I haven't heard if he got his medal yet...police sure were happy with him...but that's Texas...

    ...that's the second reply tonight I've found in a thread it didn't belong in...wonder if we're experiencing technical difficulties, or is the moon full...
    I'm far from perfect but I'd bet 100 rnds of 40 cal I (DID) post it here...weird.
    I was reading responses on my Kindle and "replied to" from the email notification. Hmmmm?

    Lemme' try the link again here

    Armed homeowner chases down, shoots at man stealing his AC unit (VIDEO)

    "Shot at" just tells me the homeowner was a bad shot.
    "When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much." Ronald Reagan

    Do what you can; then do what you must

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