Less Capacity = More Fatalities???

This is a discussion on Less Capacity = More Fatalities??? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Someone posted today a video of a motorist being attacked by a gang of bikers. One, or two broke out his windows, and then the ...

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Thread: Less Capacity = More Fatalities???

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    VIP Member Array StormRhydr's Avatar
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    Less Capacity = More Fatalities???

    Someone posted today a video of a motorist being attacked by a gang of bikers. One, or two broke out his windows, and then the video stopped. I think its safe to assume that they did not induct him into their club.

    There were LOTS of bikers around. Which got me to thinking on the issue of low capacity mags, or weapons. And potential unintended consequences.

    Say you had lots of threats to contend with, and a 5 shot snubbie, or .380 pocket pistol with 6-7 shots. Someone is bashing in your side window, another your rear window, and the rest are ready to give you severe bodily injury, or a casket, (however it happens to work out for them), ASAP.

    Every single shot would have to count, or you would either die, or be crippled for life. The threats are at point blank range.

    I think that under such circumstances, that one might well take single head shots, instead of shooting center mass, and HOPING that a BG disengaged.

    I can see fatalities going UP because of ammo limits, or mag restrictions, in such a scenario. And when I say going up, I mean going up on the bad guys side of the ledger, not what we have always thought about, and on the CC person.

    What do you guys & gals, think?

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  3. #2
    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    IMO you should carry enough gun for what ever might come your way as a conceal carry holder. The bikers in the video is a whole new breed of crap that requires more than the gun. They made the mistake and got off the freeway. I didnt appear that they called 911. I see what you are saying if you have to engage, but in that situation they should not of had to...

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    VIP Member Array OutWestSystems's Avatar
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    That is why we carry extra magazines.

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    I think the smallest I ever go is a 12+1 M&P9c with at least one spare 17-round mag.
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    VIP Member Array StormRhydr's Avatar
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    And I have that exact gun, too. And sort of agree. But, Mike, there are states with mag restrictions or overall capacity limits now.

    That was the reason for my post. The law of unintended consequences. Ie a law to have fewer fatalities, ends up causing more head shots, in such a situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I think the smallest I ever go is a 12+1 M&P9c with at least one spare 17-round mag.
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    Senior Member Array txron's Avatar
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    That is why a carry a service model 9mm XD with 16+1 and an extra mag. I am not fond of small pocket guns. I pay for it with the extra weight, but I would rather have the extra weight of a service size semi handgun with 16rds than a pocket gun with 6-7 rds. There are only so many extra mags you can carry.
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    VIP Member Array OutWestSystems's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StormRhydr View Post
    ends up causing more head shots, in such a situation.
    You don't go for head shots in a self defense situation unless you have no choice, ie, body armor. You always shoot center mass. I don't care how good of shot you are at the range, once you have that adrenalin dump in real life, you will be happy when you land one on the body.

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array StormRhydr's Avatar
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    The guy is at your driver window. Like in the video. With limitied capacity, and a gang looking to kill me, I would want every shot counting.

    Absolutely Id go for a head shot on the guy at my window.

    Quote Originally Posted by OutWestSystems View Post
    You don't go for head shots in a self defense situation unless you have no choice, ie, body armor. You always shoot center mass. I don't care how good of shot you are at the range, once you have that adrenalin dump in real life, you will be happy when you land one on the body.
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    VIP Member Array 1MoreGoodGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StormRhydr View Post
    Someone posted today a video of a motorist being attacked by a gang of bikers. One, or two broke out his windows, and then the video stopped. I think its safe to assume that they did not induct him into their club.

    There were LOTS of bikers around. Which got me to thinking on the issue of low capacity mags, or weapons. And potential unintended consequences.

    Say you had lots of threats to contend with, and a 5 shot snubbie, or .380 pocket pistol with 6-7 shots. Someone is bashing in your side window, another your rear window, and the rest are ready to give you severe bodily injury, or a casket, (however it happens to work out for them), ASAP.

    Every single shot would have to count, or you would either die, or be crippled for life. The threats are at point blank range.

    I think that under such circumstances, that one might well take single head shots, instead of shooting center mass, and HOPING that a BG disengaged.

    I can see fatalities going UP because of ammo limits, or mag restrictions, in such a scenario. And when I say going up, I mean going up on the bad guys side of the ledger, not what we have always thought about, and on the CC person.

    What do you guys & gals, think?
    Making every single shot count has nothing to do with the quantity of rounds that are held in your firearm.

    With that said, I don't want to have only 5 bullets when I need 6 or more bullets to live through the bad guy's attack.

    Most days I carry 15+1 and three 15 round mags for a total of 61.
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    This is the exception to the rule. I have found in the little research I've done that a large gang showing up at once is an oddity. It may change , but for now , two to three appears to be the norm in the street. Have not watched the video yet so may get a better idea of what happened . I do think a running gun battle would not have gone well .
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    VIP Member Array StormRhydr's Avatar
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    I dont know how many were in the video, but LOTS. Id guess at least 40-50.

    And yeah, I was not speaking of shooting while driving, but rather when the driver was about to be pulled out his driver window by a biker who had smashed his window out.

    Quote Originally Posted by gatorbait51 View Post
    This is the exception to the rule. I have found in the little research I've done that a large gang showing up at once is an oddity. It may change , but for now , two to three appears to be the norm in the street. Have not watched the video yet so may get a better idea of what happened . I do think a running gun battle would not have gone well .
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    VIP Member Array NONAME762's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StormRhydr View Post
    The guy is at your driver window. Like in the video. With limitied capacity, and a gang looking to kill me, I would want every shot counting.

    Absolutely Id go for a head shot on the guy at my window.
    ABSOFREAKIN'LUTELY!! Scared like all get out, adrenalin dumping up the wazoo I would go for the head shot too.

    If someone is bashing out my rear window, reverse over the jackass then continue forward to escape the threat.
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    Distinguished Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
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    Good luck with your little handgun magazines against an army. If you would shoot outnumbered and surrounded like that I'd call you a fool, a dead fool. They've got all the witnesses and will make up whatever story they want. Your pistol will only get you out of a narrow set of circumstances. There are plenty of circumstances where it will make your chances for survival worse, like this one.
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    Member Array Yooshin's Avatar
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    There's a lot of what-ifs and unknown. I think I would try to use the vehicle as much as possible. That Rover at full throttle in reverse would plow to the point where the squids would eventually get out of the way but then they might completely crazy on you and who knows if some of them were armed. What if you had something like a Glock 19 with 2 back up 30 round magazines, would that be enough?
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    Senior Member Array txron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaeger View Post
    Good luck with your little handgun magazines against an army. If you would shoot outnumbered and surrounded like that I'd call you a fool, a dead fool. They've got all the witnesses and will make up whatever story they want. Your pistol will only get you out of a narrow set of circumstances. There are plenty of circumstances where it will make your chances for survival worse, like this one.
    Shoot the leader first and hope the others flee.
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