How bad is this mistake if even a mistake.......

This is a discussion on How bad is this mistake if even a mistake....... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I am excited to be here and I am new here. Hopefully I will learn so much I am so looking forward. I have a ...

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  1. #1
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    Post How bad is this mistake if even a mistake.......


    I am excited to be here and I am new here. Hopefully I will learn so much I am so looking forward.
    I have a friend who is a single father of a special needs son. Living in Texas. At the end of his street is a neighborhood school. He, lets call him Mike, was leaving to go across town to pick his son up from school.

    People park on his street to pick up their elementary children every day. On this particular day it was so crowded a Hispanic lady had blocked his ability to exit his drive while waiting for her child. The neighborhood street was very congested from all the parked cars. He was asking her to move but she could not hear what he was saying because on the other side of the street an African American Gentlemen was playing his music so loudly nobody could hear and the music was rattling the cars all around him.

    Mike was growing anxious about arriving late to pick up his son and turned to the musical car and screamed hey would you please turn down that crap so I can explain to this lady I need to back out of my drive way. The music man flipped him off saying my brother is a police officer and laughed. Mike screamed again, look buddy this is a residential neighborhood and I am asking you politely to turn it down. The man proceeds to get out of his car screaming vulgarities and telling mike I will turn it down for you, how bout I come to you and make it where you cannot hear it. The music man is rather large, about 6'8" weighing around 380. Mike is scared for him self as the music guy is walking towards him so Mike with his conceal carry license pulls his 380 out of the pocket of his cargo shorts just enough that the D.J. stops and starts walking backwards to his car saying okay buddy, no need for that, I will turn it down.

    Mike gets in his truck as the lady has now left with her child. Note, this is not a school zone, 75 yards away is the school zone at one end of Mikes street. 45 minutes later Mike returns home with his son to find the police in his house with his elderly mother who he also cares for. They have three witness' who say they saw him pull it out and point it at everyone, even children. The D.A. files charges after his arrest.

    He did voluntarily relinquish his gun to the police who asked for it and told them he never removed it from his pocket and was only attempting to defuse the situation as he feared for his life. Obviously it worked. 18 months later he is still awaiting trial. Any helpful suggestions or explanations would be helpful. He can only afford a court appointed attorney who is more concerned about his weekend card games than providing a defense for Mike.

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  3. #2
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    Welcome...

    from Central Florida!

    I would say that your friend is about to experience some problems...
    I added some line spacing to your post.

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    Member Array CCIE33560's Avatar
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    Welcome! I hope your friend isn't really you, because I also think he may be getting in some trouble. To me, it seems he had a chance to flee. I don't know if here is a stand your ground law or not in that area, but I would also be concerned that 3 other people are corroborating the DJ's story. He needs a witness that will agree he didn't pull his weapon out as well.

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    3 witnesses,unless his attorney is Ben Matlock or his equivalent he is pretty screwed,if the guy was approaching in a threatening manner he should have verbally yelled to stay back while either remaining on his property or getting on it,then called 911 to report the threat,until the guy came onto my property verbally threatening me the gun would have remained concealed.this is what happens when people don't read and understand the laws pertaining to self defense in their states.
    I don't understand the "OBVIOUSLY IT WORKED" statement since he is still awaiting trial,the charges weren't dropped,
    oakchas likes this.
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    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    3 witnesses,unless his attorney is Ben Matlock or his equivalent he is pretty screwed,if the guy was approaching in a threatening manner he should have verbally yelled to stay back while either remaining on his property or getting on it,then called 911 to report the threat,until the guy came onto my property verbally threatening me the gun would have remained concealed.this is what happens when people don't read and understand the laws pertaining to self defense in their states.
    I don't understand the "OBVIOUSLY IT WORKED" statement since he is still awaiting trial,the charges weren't dropped,
    I think he meant it worked in the sense the guy went back to the music mobile.

    Three witnesses swearing he waved his firearm at a bunch of folks is pretty bad ju ju.
    Aceoky likes this.
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    Senior Member Array xsigma40cal's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forum. As for your "buddy" Mike, I would recommend searching for a Pro-Bono legal society that caters to special cases such as this, such as a gun-owners legal defense fund. Another option is to hire a para-legal that experience in trial/litigation strategy who can go through the reports with a fine tooth comb and find the holes in all the statements. It sounds like a case that would have quite a few of those. It would be pretty hard for the prosecution to round up a jury that would lock away a single father of a special needs child. Assuming this is the truth, and Mike isnt lying like how the majority of defendants do to their own lawyers.
    Aceoky likes this.
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    New Member Array godaddy's Avatar
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    IMO, Mike needs to articulate that he was in fear for his life or great bodily harm due to the disparity of force (DJ was much larger and stronger than him, if in fact he was). Call Massad Ayoob and see if he will testify for Mike. Good luck.
    oneshot likes this.

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    He who calls 911 first is usually the complainant while the non caller is usually given the title perpetrator.

    If you show a weapon you may wish to be the one to claim the title of complainant.
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    Distinguished Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
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    We're not cops. Brandishing is illegal in my state. For me a pistol is not another SET of options. It is a last ditch option only when I'm certain my life or someone else's life is in danger. Legally, in my state, that means if I can reasonably assume that an aggravated crime is about to occur, is occurring, or just occurred, and you have to be ready to PROOVE it. Common sense rules, and you had better be able to back up your actions with evidence. What might work and "diffuse" a situation might also be totally illegal, and my freedom is right up there with my life in terms of value to me. They call it "defensive carry" for more reasons than just defending yourself, you have to think legally defensible as well. The whole "Always carry, never tell" can be taken to its logical conclusion and remain completely true. IMO your friend made a big mistake, and at a minimum probably lost his right to go about his business armed.

    A similar thing happened to an acquaintance of mine, and I wrote about it here. I did not write a follow up, because everyone who knows him did not wish him ill, but would have prefered he lost his right to carry. His accuser for brandishing (there is no question he brandished in a road rage situation) failed to follow through and testify against him. The prosecutor dropped the charges with no witness, he got his piece and his permit back like nothing happened. I am skeptical that he learned anything, and I fear he will do something that stupid again. We've all talked about it, and none of us are comfortable at all with this person carrying. That said, other than endeavoring to avoid him there is little anyone can do. When I see him again were going to have a long talk, but I doubt it will do any good.
    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive." C.S. Lewis

  11. #10
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    Welcome to the forum, but it pains me to say I don't think you're going to find the guidance you're hoping for.

    Your friend Mike needs some better communication skills, to say the least. It doesn't matter if I'm playing Mozart or Glen Beck, if somebody "screamed... hey turn that crap down" at me, right off the bat I'm not going to be kindly disposed to him. Turns out he picked the wrong guy to scream at. It matters not that his kid has special needs; Mike handled it badly from the outset and his actions escalated the situation, and people saw him with a gun in his hand - even if it didn't fully leave his pocket.

    As far as advice available here, whatever you get will be anecdotal at best, and is no substitute for professional legal counsel, which is what your friend needs right now. He should consider himself extremely lucky if he skates with a misdemeanor and probation; and it will take luck of cosmic proportion for him to retain his CCW - in my opinion.
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  12. #11
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    Each of you are spectacular individuals for responding. Yes it is all true. Fortunately his neighbor witnessed and is going to testify in his behalf. And thankfully it is not me but I would rather it be me than him with all the surrounding circumstances. Mike has never been able to afford a cell phone and refuses an Obama phone. I feel Mike would have been better served getting a phone rather than his conceal carry. He flusters to easily and thinks he is living in Chicago still. I paid his bail, Mike has no where to turn. I love the idea of getting a legal society and pro Bono. I have stressed "Afraid for your life!"

    Again Thanks and also for spacing!

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  13. #12
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    Smitty, Your remarks are spot on, sadly.

    I'm reaching for him, I know.

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array blitzburgh's Avatar
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    Seems odd that the lady at the end of his driveway couldn't hear him but the guy with the loud music across the street could.
    "Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." - Benjamin Franklin
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    You are, i mean Mike may have problems on his hands pulling a gun . Mike sounds like he has alot of stress in his life being the care giver and holding his family together . I wish him luck but he handled it wrong.

    Welcome you and Mike to the site from Maryland
    Last edited by welder516; October 5th, 2013 at 08:12 AM.
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    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Mike is scared for him self as the music guy is walking towards him so Mike with his conceal carry license pulls his 380 out of the pocket of his cargo shorts just enough that the D.J. stops and starts walking backwards to his car saying okay buddy, no need for that, I will turn it down.
    Mike is about to find out that the showing of a gun is about the same thing as the using a gun. Thus may quote of "Guantes" at the bottom of my posts. If it's not time to pull the trigger it's not time to show the gun period.

    No matter how the gun is used or not used, if it was part of the situation be the first to call 911. Most times the first to call is looked at as the GG
    BenGoodLuck likes this.
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