I used deadly force against a large boxer dog

This is a discussion on I used deadly force against a large boxer dog within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I live in rural Oklahoma and walk three miles each weekday evening around a simi-populated area out of any city limits. There are several homes ...

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Thread: I used deadly force against a large boxer dog

  1. #1
    New Member Array Rodeking1's Avatar
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    I used deadly force against a large boxer dog

    I live in rural Oklahoma and walk three miles each weekday evening around a simi-populated area out of any city limits. There are several homes on multiple acre tracts and many of these households are dog owners. I have been walking this route for years and have been approached by many happy dogs and a few irate ones

    This year there was a very large Boxer that continued to threaten and became more aggressive with every contact. A few weeks ago this dog sneaked behind me and came within one foot of me barking and growling. I had my small 380 on my person but I backed away slowly and the dog did not attack. The next day I called the Sheriffs office and was told that there are no leash laws but he would speak to the owner. The deputy never called me back so I don't know if he ever talked to him or not. I would have been happy to have spoken to the dogs owner but that dog runs loose in his yard and no name on the mailbox.

    I began open carrying my Taurus Public Defender loaded with shot-shells which I thought might provide good protection against big dogs.

    Last week as I was walking, this same dog was in front of the home and approached me with a deep guttural growl. A man whom I assumed was the owner was in the front yard and I yelled to him, "Get your dog." He called out to him and the dog stopped.as I continued walking. I walked another 15 yards and the dog attacked. The dog lunged for my face and came with inches barking and growling madly. He lunged again and I upholstered my Judge and fired. It was point blank range and happened so fast and the muzzle was pointed at the dogs face. The dog immediately collapsed and lay on the ground kicking. The owner was on an ATV and witnessed this from the front yard. He drove across the street where I am and began yelling at me for needlessly shooting the dog. He then drew a pistol from his pants and my mind went on red alert. My gun was holstered and I began a fast walk away. The owner pointed the gun at the dog and dispatched him and asked me for my name. I gave it to him and fled hurriedly.

    I completed my walk and the only way back home was right back in front of the same house. As I approached, I noticed the man in the yard and as I continued, he walked to meet me. He was the owner of the home but not the dog owner. The dog owner is his neighbor and was visiting him earlier. He apologized for his neighbor and told me that this dog had attacked some electrical workers a few weeks back and was beaten with sticks.

    Received a call from a deputy the following evening about a complaint from the dogs owner. Ask me to use a stick instead of a gun but no issues. I guess I will join a gym,

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  3. #2
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    First of all welcome to the site from Maryland .

    How did the dog get inches from your face were you standing ?
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  4. #3
    Distinguished Member Array BadgerJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodeking1 View Post
    I live in rural Oklahoma and walk three miles each weekday evening around a simi-populated area out of any city limits. There are several homes on multiple acre tracts and many of these households are dog owners. I have been walking this route for years and have been approached bby many happy dogs and a few irate ones.

    This year there was a very large Boxer that continued to threaten and became more aggressive with every contact.

    A few weeks ago this dog sneaked behind me and came within one foot of me barking and growling. I had my small 380 on my person but I backed away slowly and the dog did not attack. The next day I called the Sheriffs office and was told that there are no leash laws but he would speak to the owner. The deputy never called me back so I don't know if he ever talked to him or not. I would have been happy to have spoken to the dogs owner but that dog runs loose in his yard and no name on the mailbox.

    I began open carrying my Taurus Public Defender loaded with shot-shells which I thought might provide good protection against big dogs.

    Last week as I was walking, this same dog was in front of the home and approached me with a deep guttural growl. A man whom I assumed was the owner was in the front yard and I yelled to him, "Get your dog." He called out to him and the dog stopped.as I continued walking. I walked another 15 yards and the dog attacked. The dog lunged for my face and came with inches barking and growling madly. He lunged again and I upholstered my Judge and fired. It was point blank range and happened so fast and the muzzle was pointed at the dogs face. The dog immediately collapsed and lay on the ground kicking. The owner was on an ATV and witnessed this from the front yard. He drove across the street where I am and began yelling at me for needlessly shooting the dog. He then drew a pistol from his pants and my mind went on red alert. My gun was holstered and I began a fast walk away. The owner pointed the gun at the dog and dispatched him and asked me for my name. I gave it to him and fled hurriedly.

    I completed my walk and the only way back home was right back in front of the same house. As I approached, I noticed the man in the yard and as I continued, he walked to meet me. He was the owner of the home but not the dog owner. The dog owner is his neighbor and was visiting him earlier. He apologized for his neighbor and told me that this dog had attacked some electrical workers a few weeks back and was beaten with sticks.

    Received a call from a deputy the following evening about a complaint from the dogs owner. Ask me to use a stick instead of a gun but no issues. I guess I will join a gym,
    Paragraphs are good. Welcome to DCDC

  5. #4
    Distinguished Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
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    Rodeking1: First WELCOME to the forum. Nice to have you here. Stick around, read lots--there are truly experienced folks here with great wisdom (I don't count myself among them--I am a decent learner however). Lots to learn for all of us.

    Just a couple of thoughts for you on your situation.

    1. Its nice to have a less-lethal option to use if appropriate. In this situation, a good can of pepper spray, like "Mean Green" from Fox Labs is a GREAT option to have on hand.

    2. You should have been the one to call 911 IMMEDIATELY after shooting, you should have called and informed dispatch that: "I've just been attacked by a dog and forced to shoot it and the owner is here with a gun." You could have also told the dispatcher that "I've called and complained before about this dog."

    3. No reason to give up your favorite walking route, just take a graduated approach to problems. Walk with a walking stick, if it doesn't work, use the pepper spray, if it doesn't work, use your handgun--and document, document, document (as in calling the Sheriff's office)

    Again WELCOME!!
    Scott, US Army 1974-2004

    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
    - Ronald Reagan

  6. #5
    New Member Array Rodeking1's Avatar
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    I was indeed standing. This dog jumped and snapped at my face. I had to clean his saliva off me when I arrived home. My phone doesn't have service in this area.
    Last edited by Rodeking1; October 11th, 2013 at 09:44 AM. Reason: Spelling
    captainamer and Arborigine like this.

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    Member Array perfection's Avatar
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    I think you did the right thing, shooting the dog. But that doesn't guarantee everything will go well in the end, because many dog owners are not reasonable in these types of situations. Good for you, open carrying. Ask yourself, "Would I have been able to draw fast enough from concealment?" If the answer is "no", then you may want to consider open carry as your main method of carry all the time, if you haven't already.

    One mistake I believe you made: You should have called the police. As Massad Ayoob says, whoever gets to the phone first and calls the police has the advantage of appearing to be the good guy. If the owner had called the police, you may be behind bars right now because of some made up story. Walking back by that house then or ever again may not be too cool of an idea either.

    Glad you are safe! Keep calm and carry a Taurus Public Defender!
    captainamer, warbirds and bigpapa like this.

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    Distinguished Member Array Glock2201's Avatar
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    I think you did most things right and I believe your only good choice was to use deadly force. A lot of people say pepper spray would have been a good option but I don't know if I want to take a chance and find it was not effective on this dog and before you know it the dog is latched on to your throat.

    If I was put in that situation I would have walked straight home and been on the phone telling my story rather than continue the walk and then have to walk by the house again. IMO that is taking too big a chance on another confrontation happening with the owner of the dog.
    perfection, niks, Aceoky and 2 others like this.

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    VIP Member Array 40Bob's Avatar
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    Welcome,

    You did fine, I had a similar problem in El Paso with pit bulls when I rode my bike for exercise. One owner even laughed at me when his dog chased me. I went back and told him next time his dog stepped into the street to chase me I was going to shoot it, never saw the dog loose again.
    My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon. Go big or stay on the porch.

  10. #9
    New Member Array Rodeking1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodeking1 View Post
    I was indeed standing. This dog jumped and snapped at my face. I had to clean his saliva off me when I arrived home. My phone doesn't have service in this area.
    Quote Originally Posted by Glock2201 View Post
    I think you did most things right and I believe your only good choice was to use deadly force. A lot of people say pepper spray would have been a good option but I don't know if I want to take a chance and find it was not effective on this dog and before you know it the dog is latched on to your throat.

    If I was put in that situation I would have walked straight home and been on the phone telling my story rather than continue the walk and then have to walk by the house again. IMO that is taking too big a chance on another confrontation happening with the owner of the dog.
    After shooting the dog, the owner was between me and my house so I chose to walk away rather than beside him. He had a gun! Only way back was by the same house, btw, the dog owner doesn't live there but I did not know that. I should have called LE though.

  11. #10
    Distinguished Member Array Glock2201's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodeking1 View Post
    After shooting the dog, the owner was between me and my house so I chose to walk away rather than beside him. He had a gun! Only way back was by the same house, btw, the dog owner doesn't live there but I did not know that. I should have called LE though.
    My apologies, I did not realize that walking straight back to your house was not a viable option.

  12. #11
    Distinguished Member Array Glock2201's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40Bob View Post
    Welcome,

    You did fine, I had a similar problem in El Paso with pit bulls when I rode my bike for exercise. One owner even laughed at me when his dog chased me. I went back and told him next time his dog stepped into the street to chase me I was going to shoot it, never saw the dog loose again.
    Let me guess the owner said he was just playing.....

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array StormRhydr's Avatar
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    You made some good choices. You carried during the first encounter. After encountering that dog, you upped the size of your carry gun.

    You did that based on the decision that the dog was a serious threat. Your judgement was sound, as eviIdenced by the attack on YOU, and the previous attacks on electrical workers. You informed LE prior to the incident. You told the dogs owner to control his animal. You drew only when you had no choice.

    I dont agree with the carry ONLY a stick idea. Or to "use a stick first". Id much rather use a stick, than down an animal that only needed a stick. But, in the particular instance you describe, I think you used the correct implement.

    Where Im at, there is a St Bernard that has braced my wife, and attacked one of my Dachshund pups. The owner saw his dog attack mine, and rapidly walked off seeking to escape into his house. He did NOT intervene in any way while my dog was being mauled. I was ...MAD. I called to him, told him now was not the time, but that he and I WERE going to have a talk.

    Shortly after seeing to my pup, we did have a talk. His dog has been problems with all kinds of people. Its his wifes dog. He doesnt care about it, cant control it, etc. He ended the conversation by saying "Shoot it if you have to."

    I thought seriously about doing just that. But, didnt want to kill a neighbors dog unless I had to. So, I added a pistol to my collection.

    I bought a S&W air weight .22 Lr. I loaded the first 4 shots with Calibri powderless shells, the other with my best .22 hollow points. It didnt take long for Cujo to come after my pups again while I was walking them. I waited till he crossed our property line, and shot him square in the rump. That did the trick. My goal wasnt to kill the dog, (if I could avoid it), just to break him of some bad habits.

    Every once in a while Cujo needs a booster shot, so to speak, but he wants no part of my pups now, and pretty much stays clear of our property.

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    Distinguished Member Array brocktice's Avatar
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    And this is why I OC when jogging in our rural town. Same problem. Probably at least 20 dogs off-leash just along the highway. I do also carry OC spray to try first. If a dog touches me though it's getting deadly force.

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    Welcome to the forum and I'm glad you're ok. As mentioned above, call 911 as soon as you can to establish that you were the victim. If your phone didn't work at the location, you should call as soon as you get home. When you call the Sheriff's office in the future, be sure to write down when you called and who you spoke to so you can establish that you had previously notified them about a problem.
    StormRhydr, brocktice and Aceoky like this.
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    Distinguished Member Array Dan060's Avatar
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    I'm sure the OP feels much better knowing his paragraphs are ok.It's something i really worry about,lol.

    Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.The only time i've pulled my gun,thankfully was on a dog.I'm not concerned about shooting one,if i need to.It's no different than a human going after me as far as i'm concerned.As long as we have the leash law,i'm not changing routes or anything else.

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