Letting people into your home

Letting people into your home

This is a discussion on Letting people into your home within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; My wife and I are 'baby-sitting' a grand piano for a friend of ours. He had to downsize his home and moved from a house ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member
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    Letting people into your home

    My wife and I are 'baby-sitting' a grand piano for a friend of ours. He had to downsize his home and moved from a house to a condo. Since he didn't have as much room in the condo, we agreed to let him keep the piano in our home until he either was able to sell it or wanted it back. We've had the piano about a year and have had no issues.

    Yesterday, he called my wife and said that a prospective buyer was interested in the piano and would it be ok if she came by to look at it. My wife asked where he had advertised the piano and our friend told her Craigslist. My wife was wary because I wasn't home, but our friend assured her that he had called the woman at her work place and she was ok.

    The lady came over and she seemed nice. She also played the piano very well. But my wife and I felt very uncomfortable having strangers come into our home, especially for an item advertised on Craigslist. We're not paranoid; it just seems foolish to be letting complete strangers into our home.

    We ended up telling our friend that we weren't comfortable keeping the piano any longer, so he's going to be moving it out.

    I told my wife that we have every right to decide who we let into our home. It would be one thing to have placed the ad ourselves; but we really have no idea who these potential buyers are and knowing that someone is advertising a $20,000 piano for sale might give some people the idea that the home is worthwhile casing or robbing.

    There are several issues I thought about after my wife told me the whole story last night:

    1. We never have to let someone into our home.
    2. If we have let someone into our home, we always have the right to demand they leave, and they have to comply or face trespassing charges.
    3. If someone refuses to leave, we have the right, in Texas, to use force to remove them from our property. Texas Penal Code 9.31 (governing the justified use of non-deadly force) and 9.32 (governing the justified use of deadly force) are our state's version of the Castle Doctrine.

    The murky area here is what can be done when the person had originally been invited into the home? Once I determine that I want them to leave and they refuse to do so, I would be allowed to draw my weapon to scare them into leaving. Texas Penal Code 9.04 states that, for defensive purposes, the display of a weapon in order to create apprehension in another person is considered a use of force, not deadly force. That means if someone trespasses on my property, I may display my firearm to create apprehension that I will use deadly force if necessary. I will not be legally justified in discharging the firearm, but I will be legally justified in displaying it to "create apprehension" under the law. Only if the trespasser is committing other acts where the law states that I am justified in using deadly force, would I be allowed to discharge my firearm legally.

    4. If the person I had originally invited into my home refuses to leave and then begins to act in a manner where I reasonably believe my life or my wife's life are in danger, I'd be justified in using deadly force.

    Although I might be justified in using deadly force, the ramifications - legally, financially, and emotionally - are dire. That's why I'm glad that we told our friend that we weren't comfortable watching the piano any longer.

    (1,200th post and now I'm a Distinguished Member! HOO HAH!)
    Ben

    Cogito, ergo armatum sum. I think, therefore I am armed. (Don Mann, The Modern Day Gunslinger; the ultimate handgun training manual)



  2. #2
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    No harm, no foul...glad it all worked without incident. That all being 'hindsight' now, next time start with a big "No!".

    We've sold things on Craigslist, and I did have the individual come to my yard, but I called him at his work number...Univ of Florida/Professor...I figured it'd be OK, and...I was armed!
    One cannot be too careful...'stuff happens'.
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    I can see where that would be a problem i am not sure i would like that myself . But did you tell your friend the real reason you don't want the piano in your home anymore . Or did you make up some other reason ?
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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Ben, IMO you are making the right call.
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    Member Array amendment4's Avatar
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    You did the right thing.Nobody comes into my house when only my wife or kids are home.That could become a very dangerous situation.We've all heard the Craiglist stories.
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    Gone from our home but not from our hearts.

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    In every state in the union, you can open carry in the privacy of your own home, do it.

    Locally there have been instances of cable/satellite installers robbing people when left alone in different parts of their homes. I had satellite TV installed not long ago, and my firearm was on my hip.
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    Senior Member Array patri0t's Avatar
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    I've had Great Results with Craigslist buying & selling. Texas law is probably different than most, but I was taught not to draw a sidearm unless I planned on pulling the trigger.

    Few jurisdictions will see "Brandishing" as an "Intermediate Use of Force". Craigslist seems like an odd place to advertise a Baby Grand Piano, to me.

    In LE we learned 100% of crimes are committed by 5% of the population. Fat Chance I'd let a stranger into my house to buy anything. The garage is OK, for me, but the wife wouldn't be F2F with them.
    LEOs have more latitude in drawing their sidearms as they are required to run 'towards' trouble.
    Now that I'm a Joe-Blow citizen, if I draw my weapon the fireballs will be one second behind it.
    Then I will reholster my sidearm, call 911.... and wait for them to collect the body.
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    Quote Originally Posted by welder516 View Post
    I can see where that would be a problem i am not sure i would like that myself . But did you tell your friend the real reason you don't want the piano in your home anymore . Or did you make up some other reason ?
    We told him the truth - that we weren't comfortable having strangers coming into our home.

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    gatorbait51 and welder516 like this.
    Ben

    Cogito, ergo armatum sum. I think, therefore I am armed. (Don Mann, The Modern Day Gunslinger; the ultimate handgun training manual)


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    VIP Member Array blitzburgh's Avatar
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    I think you made the right call by telling your friend you're not comfortable keeping it any longer. I wouldn't have been open to the idea of a stranger from Craigslist coming by to check it out, at all. Especially since I didn't set the appointment up. I'm glad things went well at the time, but you just never know what might come along down the road from the visit.
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    You did right in telling him to get it out posthaste..
    He definitely overstepped his bounds on having someone come over to your house like that.
    I would have told my friend that the deal was to keep the piano for him, not showcase and sell it for him.
    I would have had him take it to a storage locker and let him deal with selling it.
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  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    Pianos (especially grand pianos) are sensitive and expensive instruments and should be kept in a temperature and humidity controlled environment. A storage locker is not a good option, which is probably why he asked you to keep it in your home. I would think that a better vetting of any prospective purchaser (with you in the loop) would go far toward easing your minds. Those with the means of purchasing such an expensive instrument are generally solid, hard-working, focused individuals; not your average thief.

    With all that in mind, you are the best judge of your situation and comfort level. Perhaps your friend could arrange to sell the piano on consignment at a suitable music store.
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    Senior Member Array Stirling XD's Avatar
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    Some people don't give Craigslist transactions a second thought and they assume everyone else is just like them. The OP's friend probably never imagined that the OP would be nervous if he invited unknown persons to someone elses house.
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    Pianos (especially grand pianos) are sensitive and expensive instruments and should be kept in a temperature and humidity controlled environment. A storage locker is not a good option ...

    Perhaps your friend could arrange to sell the piano on consignment at a suitable music store.
    That's how I'd do it, if I had troubles storing such a unit. As you suggest, in a poor environment he could lose half or more of that investment due to crappy climate control, as compared to a couple grand off a sale as "seller's" fee.
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    Member Array warbirds's Avatar
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    You are a good friend- Not many people have the space to store a Grand Piano for a friend!
    You can 100% open carry in your own home.
    But I feel you made the right call asking for the piano to be removed. I know the hi-end piano store in Ft. Worth (Off of Camp Bowie) would take it on consignment if it truly is a $20K instrument.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    Pianos (especially grand pianos) are sensitive and expensive instruments and should be kept in a temperature and humidity controlled environment. A storage locker is not a good option, which is probably why he asked you to keep it in your home. I would think that a better vetting of any prospective purchaser (with you in the loop) would go far toward easing your minds. Those with the means of purchasing such an expensive instrument are generally solid, hard-working, focused individuals; not your average thief.
    With all that in mind, you are the best judge of your situation and comfort level. Perhaps your friend could arrange to sell the piano on consignment at a suitable music store.


    ^^^^^^^^^^^

    IDK about where you are at, but here in Mi. storage locker facilities ARE climate controlled to where you could store an $80,000 piano safely.


    Those with the means with which to scam/deceive you into believing they have the means(showing up in a rented/borrowed Mercedes, BMW etc. ) to buy your expensive instrument, only to return later and have your family ending up like the Petit family.
    Petit Family Killings News - The New York Times
    Gruesome Petit Trial testimony: Suspects Snapped Photos During Assaults - ABC News

    From second link:
    While Hayes was out with Hawke-Petit, Buglione said that, according to Hayes, Komisarjevsky was supposed to put the family in the car and then the pair would burn the house down. When Hayes returned, however, Komisarjevsky told him he had already sexually assaulted Michaela Petit, 11, and told Hayes to "square things up" and do the same to the wife, which Hayes allegedly did.

    One of the suspects also took photos of Michaela on his cell phone during the alleged crime

    END
    No thanks.

    Last bold from the quote above would have been a good idea.
    If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.

    Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to defeat the British, He shot them!

    Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn

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