drew and pointed my pistol last night. agressive drunk man and two large dogs.

This is a discussion on drew and pointed my pistol last night. agressive drunk man and two large dogs. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; like the title says, last night i was forced to draw and point my pistol at two large dogs and an aggressive man who appeared ...

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    Distinguished Member Array technomonster's Avatar
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    drew and pointed my pistol last night. agressive drunk man and two large dogs.

    like the title says, last night i was forced to draw and point my pistol at two large dogs and an aggressive man who appeared to be intoxicated. there were others present but they were not acting aggressively.

    here are the facts.

    location, Dayton Ohio, at the door of my apartment.

    time, 4 AM

    i am a OH CHL holder, i live alone.

    i live in the second floor of an apartment.

    i was inside my doorway for the entire encounter.

    i carry my gun chambered but i was at home, i just grabbed it form under the pillow and tucked it in my PJ i was wearing at the time.

    i pointed my loaded pistol at two large dogs that was off leash and then briefly at an aggressive man who i believe was intoxicated.

    i did not fire my pistol.

    i was the one to call the police.

    i informed 911 operator that i have a loaded gun pointed at my door in anticipation of my door being kicked down.

    911 instructed me to disarm upon the arrival of the officers.

    i gave 911 a description of myself.

    when i heard the officers arrive i informed 911 that i was unloading my pistol and that it would be on the kitchen counter with the slide open.

    my door was closed when the officers arrived. i opened the door for the officers at their request.

    i had unloaded my pistol and placed it on the kitchen counter before i opened the door for the officers.

    one of the responding officers briefly pointed a gun at me. he lowered his pistol as soon as he saw my empty hands.

    the officers took possession of my pistol for the duration and returned it to me before they left.

    the officers did not accuse me of any wrong doing and did not think i acted improperly.

    the officers said that where was not enough evidence to cite the man and the woman with the dogs and did not ask me if i wanted to press charges.

    the officers acted professionally. they informed me that no charges would be filed against me and that to give them a call ASAP should there ever be a problem.

    the officer s instructed me to avoid future contact with them (the neighbors) and had told them to stay away from me.

    the officer informed them that there is a leash law, that the common hallway/yard is not considered their resident and they need to have the dogs on a leash when outside of their apartment.

    upon request, the officers wrote down their names and the report number for me.



    some background information on events leading up to the confrontation.

    i currently live in a small apartment on the second floor in a not so great part of town. about a half year ago some rather rowdy folks moved into the unit directly below me, about 2 months ago their relatives moved into the unit next to me. both of them own dogs that they let run around off leash and poop everywhere.

    the first night the downstairs neighbors moved in they had a party, playing very loud rap music since 10 pm and
    decide to turn it up at about 5 am. this is when i decided enough was enough and pounded my floor with a mallet to get them to quiet down. the music stops and i heard a man yell "come down here and say it to my face ***** !!!" he repeats this a few times and then the music starts back up, this time louder. i called the non emergency number and about ten minuets later an officer shows up and i can hear him knocking on the door down stairs. the occupant refused to open the door and repeatedly asked who was at the door. after the officer stated "DAYTON POLICE !!!" for the fifth or six time i hear the door open and the residents trying to argue that the music was reasonable. the officers assured the residents that it was in fact way too loud, that it could be heard from down the street and to turn it off.

    a few weeks after that i saw one of the resident outside (same man i pointed my pistol at last night) he apologized for being an ass and said to just talk to him in the future and leave the police out. i told him that the police was called because he was yelling fighting words and making threats. he once again said he was sorry and that there would be no problem in the future.

    i am usually out of town for the weekend and that's usually when they would have a party, but sometime i stay around and they dont seem to notice or care if i am around and would be loud anyways. in that past few months i have had to ask them to turn down the music a few times and they did without any arguments.



    so here's what happened last night.

    at about 10 pm i can hear people gather down stairs and music coming on. after about an hour they all leave and i was relieved.

    at around 3 am the party returns and start to get loud, at around 3:30 am the gangster rap comes on so i go down stairs and ask them to turn it down. i was very polite and the woman who answered the door said that they would be quiet.

    ten minuets later the music is still on i hear knocking on my door. i ignore it and try to sleep, there is nothing to talk about. it is now close to 4 am, it's an apartment building. they need to be quiet and that's all there is to it. am i being unreasonable?

    the music gets louder and louder so i get out the mallet and pound on the floor. i hear the man yelling for me to come down and talk to him. then i hear their door open, the man yelling threats and a woman telling him to go back inside. the yelling continues and i can hear that he is at the bottom the the stairs in the common area. the stairs lead straight to my door. i should of just called the cops right there an then, but i made the mistake of opening the door and telling them to go away or i would call the cops.

    bad move, two dogs run past the women and up the stairs with the angry man right behind them. the dogs got to my door before i could close it and is now inside my apartment. i draw my pistol, rack the slide and pointed it at the dogs, the woman calls the dogs back and condemns me for aiming a gun at her dogs. the man tries to get closer so i pointed the gun at him and told him to back off. my gun may have been out past the door but i am still standing inside my doorway. the man is still yelling and he wants me to come out and "fight like a man", he dares me to shoot him but backs off a bit. i hear some more people coming out of the down stairs apartment but i cannot see them.

    i shut and locked the door and dialed 911. i tell them that there were people outside my door threatening me with violence and they had large dogs that ran towards me. i needed police to come to my apartment right away and that i was armed with a loaded pistol aiming at the door because i believe they will try to break down my door. i repeatedly yell for the man to back away from my door. i can hear him outside still yelling. 911 tells me to take a deep breath and calm down, i give my description and 911 tells me that they need me to put the gun down when the officers arrive. 911 asked how many were outside and if they were armed. i say three or four and that i was unsure if they were armed or not. i keep the pistol pointed at the door and wait for the lights and sirens to come.

    i never saw lights or heard sirens but 911 tells me that the officers are now outside, i hear the man and woman go back down the stairs and what seems to be officers speaking to them, i hear radio chatter outside so i go and unload the gun, and unlock the door. i hear heavy foot steps com up the stairs and a voice outside claiming to be police. i can hear the officers talk on the radio, i tell then that the door was now unlocked and they could come on in. they try but the door would not open, perhaps i did not unlock it all the way so i go up and turn the door knob and crack the door and put my right hand out so it is now visible to the officers. i open the door some more and i can now see one officer outside the door and another one behind him half way up the stairs with his Glock drawn and pointed at me, i put out my other hand and open the door all the way. the officer holsters his pistol. they seem calm and did not yell any commands.

    the officers came inside and i hand them my ID and CHL. i tell them that the pistol was on the counter and that the slide was open. i also tell them that i was the owner of the pistol. they assured that me having the pistol was no problem and that they just want to be in control of it for the duration of their visit. they asked why i pointed a gun at the mans face. i tell them that i drew my pistol because of the the dogs and then at the man because he was coming toward me even after he saw me rack the slide on my pistol. the officer seem particularly interested in rather if had the gun pointed at the mans face or just at him in general. why the difference i do not know, he even went on to say that he himself would point it at the head if he was in my situation. not sure if he way trying to get me to say something or just commenting. but anyways i explained that i first drew my gun because of the dogs charging at me and then at the man as he approached me aggressively. i was not holding my gun straight out because of the proximity of the angry man. keeping it close to me to help retain it should the man attempt a gun grab. they seemed happy with the explanation and said that they would be back up ofter they talk to the folks downstairs.

    they go down stairs and i can hear the man yelling at the officers and i heard the woman saying that i am reckless with a gun and pose a danger to the other residents. a while later the officers come back up to give me my gun back. placing it on the counter with the side open. i could tell that they were not pleased with the man and commented on how his is a habitual trouble maker with a bad attitude and that the other characters were probably not much better just based on they way they were speaking to the officers.

    the officers informed me that even tho they are siding with me, this type of things can get ugly if it lands in court because the ass hats would have more witnesses. to avoid future contact with them and just call in a noise compliant instead of speaking to them myself. they reminded me that in OH i have the duty to retreat if i should encounter them out side and not inside my home, they advised me to back away from an aggressor and head to my car or back inside.

    good thing i'm out of school now and hove no more reason to live in this area. soon i will move to where ever my job takes me. if i get hired close by i will move anyways. i need to get out of this god forsaken city. two car break ins and three bad, potentially violent encounters in one year, first a road rage incident a year ago at Mc D when some punk kid tried to start a fight, then earlier this summer i had a run in with some shady charterers who i'm pretty sure was trying to mug me and now this. it's time for me to get out of Dayton.

    hind sight is 20/20. i should not have opened the door or even when down to speak to them in the first place, should of just called the cops. i should never of let the dogs get that close to me, they could of bit me if they wanted.

    sorry for the long post and stating things repeatedly. jut trying to get the info across as accurately as possible

    what would you have done differently? was i too aggressive? not aggressive enough? would you have shot the dogs as soon as they ran at you? what about the angry man? what are your thoughts on the 911 response and the conduct of the officers. should i have asked to press charges? should i seek legal action now? such as a restraining order?
    Last edited by technomonster; October 14th, 2013 at 03:42 PM.
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  3. #2
    Distinguished Member Array brocktice's Avatar
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    Very interesting post. Hard to handle things calmly when woken up at 3AM, sounds like you learned a few things from the incident and I was able to learn from your sharing, especially the bits about interacting with 911 w.r.t. your being armed.
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    Member Array GetSmith's Avatar
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    If at all possible I would simply move. That's one of the good things of apartment living. You have more freedom to move than a homeowner. Moving would be much simpler than a restraining order and cheaper than legal action if an "incident" occurs.

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    Distinguished Member Array Wunderneun's Avatar
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    I'm glad that everything worked out for you.

    I live on the fringe of an area like that and is currently recovering from even worse conditions before I bought my house here. Minorities up and down the middle of the street at all hours of the night talking as if no one else was around when the most of the neighborhood has windows open in the spring and autumn. Drugs are being dealt just two blocks up the street and four blocks in the other direction.

    Three drug dealers were recently indicted and we don't expect to be seeing them around here anymore. The local K-9 officer Ralph lives across the street and owns Ibor which is Lisl's half brother, a retired LEO lives next to me, I'm prior LEO, investigations, and armed security. Next door to Ralph is a part time LEO at another department 10 miles from here. The riff-raff, white trash, and gang-banger wanna-bees have been ran out of this neighborhood and we have for the most part, taken it back as a middle class, working class neighborhood.

    Every stranger that passes through here is suspect if they are heading to or from the area that still has a drug problem. Dogs help a lot. The neighborhood is full of dogs. Everything from my neighbors ankle biters, to Ibor across the street and my Lisl, both that wouldn't hesitate to let you know how unwelcome you are in this neighborhood, let alone our homes.

    At least five out of the ten homeowners on this block are armed at any given time, and naturally those that are on duty are armed. The rest of the five homes probably have firearms with a homeowner that knows how to use them.

    In spite of the surrounding neighborhoods I'm probably in the most secure part of this small town.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GetSmith View Post
    If at all possible I would simply move. That's one of the good things of apartment living. You have more freedom to move than a homeowner. Moving would be much simpler than a restraining order and cheaper than legal action if an "incident" occurs.
    Yep. Moving is a pain and you should not have to, but the last time I checked the world was not perfect. Good luck.
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    I'm glad you're ok. I lived in an apartment with a crappy neighbor with the 2am thumping stereo. Called the police. That cop happened to have his own garage band. I moved.

    The one thing that disturbed me the most was:

    i carry my gun chambered but i was at home, i just grabbed it form under the pillow and tucked it in my PJ i was wearing at the time.
    ....... i draw my pistol, rack the slide and pointed it at the dogs,
    A gun with an empty chamber will cost you valuable seconds. I'm very glad these dogs didn't chomp down on you right away. You could have not had those valuable seconds to rack the slide, or those dogs could be chomping down on one of your hands/arms so you are unable to rack the slide. Please, please carry with a loaded chamber, or if you're not comfortable with a semiauto with a loaded chamber, consider a revolver. Home is no place to start being complacent and unchambering. As you just learned!

    hind sight is 20/20. i should not have opened the door or even when down to speak to them in the first place, should of just called the cops. i should never of let the dogs get that close to me, they could of bit me if they wanted.
    You've done your own evaluation, so I'll leave it at that. That moron is not going to improve; some people are so miserable they just want to make everyone else miserable. Don't let him drag you down with him. You're better than him - move and wipe your hands clean of him. My landlord let me break my lease.

    Him wanting you to come to his door to "talk to him" first - I'm sure you know this by now, but he obviously doesn't care about your opinion, but it does give him the control of having YOU at HIS door. You have no idea what you're going to see or get when he opens that door. And also, showing up at his door makes everything look bad for you, no matter your neighborly intentions. If you knock on his door to politely tell him to turn the music down and he gets violent and you shoot him, the cops are going to make arrests on their judgement. They will see you shooting a man at his own doorway. "Well, I came over to talk to him." The other occupants will say, "He came over to confront us, and then he shot him in cold blooded anger!"
    "Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa

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    I am glad things worked out for you it could have gotten ugly .

    I have a next door neighbor that has said he wants to assult me or beat me up ( couple years back ) i told him i will deal with him by calling the police and i do .
    He really is a Stupid Boy trapped in a mans body , i am the better man as i will not get drawn into his games and he really don't know how bad i could hurt him if i want but i am not going to mess up my good life by dealing with him .

    Don't let these trashy people draw you in to the Drama they have nothing to lose and you have everything to lose . Best wishes to you
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    No, no, no . . . If you draw you have to shoot! That's what some others claim.

    OP, this is the exact reason I will never live in apartments, condos or townhouses--you don't get to pick the lousy neighbors one wall away. Someone would have to "invade my castle" to mess with me on my property.
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    Distinguished Member Array Wunderneun's Avatar
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    Same here, and you don't want to meet the 8itch that lives with me.
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    VIP Member Array high pockets's Avatar
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    Now we know where Sixto's old neighbors went!!!
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    VIP Member Array blitzburgh's Avatar
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    Just curious, not condemning you, but how come your weapon wasn't already ready to rock and roll?
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    Quote Originally Posted by technomonster View Post
    hind sight is 20/20. i should not have opened the door or even when down to speak to them in the first place, should of just called the cops. i should never of let the dogs get that close to me, they could of bit me if they wanted.
    Correct on all counts.
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    This kind of 'stuff' happens in a lot of places...time to move.
    You are out of town for many weekends? Not good...now it's really time to move.
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    Distinguished Member Array technomonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blitzburgh View Post
    Just curious, not condemning you, but how come your weapon wasn't already ready to rock and roll?
    i don't have my gun chambered unless it is in the holster and i am wearing the holster. i chamber the gun and it goes into the holster where it will remain for the day. when i come home the gun is un holstered and cleared. i chamber the same round about five times max and then set it aside for range use. the mag goes back in and i keep the gun close by in a simple holster that is not the same one as my EDC. it does not have the same retention and is just there to keep the lint off the gun and oil off my stuff. i was in my PJ so i just tightened the draw cords and tucked the gun in my pants. my EDC requires a belt and real pants.

    opening the door was the mistake, those dogs ran up the stairs quick. i took the gun with me just in case. i should of chambered the gun before i did so or better yet not open the door at all. i was just going to tell him to go away or i`ll call the cops.

    it all worked out at the end, racking the slide got their attention and the woman called the dogs back. i did not have to fire my gun at the dogs or the angry drunk man while inside a crowded apartment.

    as i have mentioned i was planing on moving soon anyways. but at the mean time i am thinking about seeking a restraining order.
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    Distinguished Member Array technomonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    No, no, no . . . If you draw you have to shoot! That's what some others claim.

    OP, this is the exact reason I will never live in apartments, condos or townhouses--you don't get to pick the lousy neighbors one wall away. Someone would have to "invade my castle" to mess with me on my property.
    i'm really glad i did not have to shoot, i got my gun back on the spot and was able to sleep in my own bed last night.

    i was living here because it was close to school and it was cheap. it was worth it (or was it?) to be close to school where i had to be at least twice a day and often till late.
    “Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.” Winston Churchill

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