Couple's Scary Night in Denver

Couple's Scary Night in Denver

This is a discussion on Couple's Scary Night in Denver within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This very easily could be my wife and I this weekend. ******************************** Finally, a Saturday evening "date night" away from the kids. You and your ...

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Thread: Couple's Scary Night in Denver

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array WebleyHunter's Avatar
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    Couple's Scary Night in Denver

    This very easily could be my wife and I this weekend.

    ********************************

    Finally, a Saturday evening "date night" away from the kids. You and your wife enjoy a nice dinner at The Tavern, popular restaurant and bar in the LoDo section of town, just across the street from the Colorado Rockies' Coors Field. After dinner, you decide to check one of the haunted houses set up in the nearby industrial district. At 1:00 am, you are driving home and stopped at a red light, coincidentally right back at the same location as the restaurant from your earlier indulgence, when...

    7NEWS - Couple says strangers chased their SUV, rammed it with a car and shot it 5 times in Denver Sunday - Local Story

    What would you do?

    How do you rate the couple's actions?

    Thanks for you input.

    Hunter
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  2. #2
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    Array Rock and Glock's Avatar
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    For starters, I drive much more defensively, and would typically not "allow" cars in close proximity to me on both sides, late at night. That in and of itself is a "warning" the victim missed. I tend to create and keep a "safe" space around my vehicle to allow for evasive action (the "Smith" System). I would have sped up significantly to avoid that situation.

    First, the rider would be calling 911. Second, if caught "napping", I would do the same - brake hard, accelerate quickly, to attempt to evade. Third, failing evasion, if I am in the middle, I have two targets I would not hesitate to ram and otherwise push into railings, rails, medians, poles, ramps or the like. I would choose my time and place to maximize the damage to the offenders, preferable straight into an abutment.

    Other than that, I am never out that late. I don't like Denver, especially late at night, and I drive a Suburban. Physics is my friend.


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    VIP Member Array blitzburgh's Avatar
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    Red lights? What the hell are those? 160 on my dash means I always drive 160.

    Give me a minute or two and I'll have a serious response.
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    Distinguished Member Array BadgerJ's Avatar
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    They were complicit in this incident of road rage. I'm not saying they deserved being shot at, but they failed to de-escalate. They're not telling the whole story, either. Once it comes down to retaliation all bets are off as to 'defending yourself'. You're no longer a 'clean victim', you can't claim SD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BadgerJ View Post
    They were complicit in this incident of road rage. I'm not saying they deserved being shot at, but they failed to de-escalate. They're not telling the whole story, either. Once it comes down to retaliation all bets are off as to 'defending yourself'. You're no longer a 'clean victim', you can't claim SD.
    I'm also suspicious regarding their story. I strongly suspect that they did something to contribute to that situation.

    Here's an apocryphal story that describes a different situation with two different outcomes:

    A couple carloads of rowdy drunks pull up along side your car, making lewd gestures towards your wife. You scream obscenities at them, flip them off, only to realize that they're drunk and crazy enough to ram you and shoot up your car.

    A couple carloads of rowdy drunks pull up along side your car, making lewd gestures towards your wife. You ignore them and drive on.
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    Senior Member Array WebleyHunter's Avatar
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    Just some curious questions:

    Is it ever possible to express your displeasure at someone's actions towards you without escalating the situation?

    If somebody cuts you off in traffic, or runs a red light, and you honk at them, have you escalated the situation?

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    VIP Member Array blitzburgh's Avatar
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    Sounds like there isn't a such thing as truly innocent party.
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    "Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." - Benjamin Franklin
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    VIP Member Array blitzburgh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebleyHunter View Post
    Just some curious questions:

    Is it ever possible to express your displeasure at someone's actions towards you without escalating the situation?

    If somebody cuts you off in traffic, or runs a red light, and you honk at them, have you escalated the situation?
    1. Not in these days and times. Well, I guess you could if you're cool with being shot at or attacked,

    2. Same as #1. Honking at people tends to 'upset' them and who knows what can come from that.

    Now does that mean be a 'coward' and let others on the road screw with you? That's up to you. We all must balance our lives and with that also comes balancing risk vs reward.
    "Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." - Benjamin Franklin
    "Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn." - C.S. Lewis

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    Senior Member Array BkCo1's Avatar
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    First I stay out of LoDo at night. Too many crazy's and would be gangsters. Stuff happens down there all the time and it doesn't make the news very often. I would have fired back but I would not be aiming at windows.
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    VIP Member Array Aceoky's Avatar
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    I don't agree that "honking" (might cause a problem and you can't say SD) etc. Clearly dependent on your state's laws .

    IF one thinks being honked at is a reason to use deadly force that is their issue , "I" will return fire , and not care that I may have honked at them prior. Carrying a gun doesn't mean I have to run and/or hide from idiots, YMMV& YOMV

    I Like R&G post quite a bit also Though ours is a 7,000 lb 4X4 (not a suburban)
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebleyHunter View Post
    Just some curious questions:

    Is it ever possible to express your displeasure at someone's actions towards you without escalating the situation?

    If somebody cuts you off in traffic, or runs a red light, and you honk at them, have you escalated the situation?
    Good questions. Many times, justified actions are not the most prudent. If you're at a red light, and the light turns green but you can see a vehicle flying towards the intersection that surely will not stop for their red light, do you enter the intersection anyway? You have every right to be there, and once he plows through you, he'll be entirely at fault.

    I'll be the coward that lets the guy drive through the red light.

    IRT honking, the only time I use my horn is to let someone know that I'm there when they blindly change lanes and try to occupy the same space in time as my vehicle. I don't use it to 'yell' at people, or express my displeasure. I always give a friendly wave and a smile when I do beep. That doesn't mean that I feel like smiling and don't really want to punch them in the head, it's just an act of courtesy.
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    Distinguished Member Array Glock2201's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadgerJ View Post
    They were complicit in this incident of road rage. I'm not saying they deserved being shot at, but they failed to de-escalate. They're not telling the whole story, either. Once it comes down to retaliation all bets are off as to 'defending yourself'. You're no longer a 'clean victim', you can't claim SD.
    I have to disagree with this statement. I cannot think of anything that this couple did to deserve to get shot at. Should he have said anything? Probably not but if this is in a place where he could legally be carrying he would have had every right to defend themselves if the thugs were the ones that initiated the confrontation.
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    Member Array jscottjr's Avatar
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    Definitely not condoning the actions of the drunk thugs, but this sounds like a case of alligator mouth getting a parakeet butt in trouble to me.
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    VIP Member Array NONAME762's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    Good questions. Many times, justified actions are not the most prudent. If you're at a red light, and the light turns green but you can see a vehicle flying towards the intersection that surely will not stop for their red light, do you enter the intersection anyway? You have every right to be there, and once he plows through you, he'll be entirely at fault.

    I'll be the coward that lets the guy drive through the red light.
    That's NOT being a coward that's just plain good sense IMHO.

    As to the original account given by the victims I can't say since I wasn't there. Their story sounds sketchy to me as BadgerJ intimated I think they must have left out a fact or 2.

    In my entire life I've never had an issue with other drivers that escalated to this level. Furthermore I don't drive like most folks. When I know I'll be making a left or right turn soon I get into the proper lane 200 feet to 1 mile from the turn regardless of whether I'm on an arterial or the freeway. If traffic is extremely heavy and I just can't grab the lane I want I double back and try again as opposed to forcing my way into the lane I want. It sounds to me like the victims here tried forcing their way into the turn lane and by doing so they escalated the situation.

    Meantime if the victims story isn't totally bunk and it really happened as they reported I would offer up this advice.

    1) Stop going out in the evenings when you know you'll be out after midnight.
    2) Trade in their current SUV for a 5 yard dump truck with snow plow attachment and leave the plow on year round. Have hardened bulletproof glass installed and Kevlar up the driving compartment. Buy a couple Glocks and carry 4 or more 30R mags and for crying out loud get a poop load of classes involving defensive gun use. Buy some body armor and wear it religiously.
    3) Take some specialized body guard type defensive/offensive driving courses similar to what Secret Service and secret agents would take.
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    VIP Member Array BenGoodLuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebleyHunter View Post
    Just some curious questions:

    Is it ever possible to express your displeasure at someone's actions towards you without escalating the situation?

    If somebody cuts you off in traffic, or runs a red light, and you honk at them, have you escalated the situation?
    You should never escalate a situation unless your life, or your loved one's lives, are in imminent danger. There is never a justification for yelling at someone, making gestures, driving erratically, just because they did. When you make the decision to get a CHL, you have also decided to never escalate.
    Dennis1209 and gatorbait51 like this.
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