When to draw and fire?

This is a discussion on When to draw and fire? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Only Glock You don't have to wait until someone actually fires a shot to draw your weapon. If you wait until they ...

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  • I would have never unholstered - there was never a threat.

    40 21.28%
  • I would have unholstered, kept handgun out of sight as BG aproached my vehicle

    28 14.89%
  • I would have unholstered, kept handgun out of sight as BG said "Or what?"

    12 6.38%
  • I would have unholstered, kept handgun out of sight as BG stuck hand in pocket

    54 28.72%
  • I would have unholstered, kept handgun in plain sight, but not aimed at BG as BG aproached my vehicle

    3 1.60%
  • I would have unholstered, kept handgun in plain sight, but not aimed at BG as BG said "Or what?"

    2 1.06%
  • I would have unholstered, kept handgun in plain sight, but not aimed at BG as BG stuck hand in pocket

    10 5.32%
  • I would have unholstered, kept handgun in plain sight, and aimed at BG as BG aproached my vehicle

    0 0%
  • I would have unholstered, kept handgun in plain sight, and aimed at BG as BG said "Or what?"

    3 1.60%
  • I would have unholstered, kept handgun in plain sight, and aimed at BG as BG stuck hand in pocket

    15 7.98%
  • Other

    21 11.17%
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Thread: When to draw and fire?

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Only Glock View Post
    You don't have to wait until someone actually fires a shot to draw your weapon. If you wait until they present their weapon before you draw, you are already at a tactical disadvantage ...
    Yes. Thankfully, Oregon law recognizes this. Drawing and even pointing a loaded weapon at someone may be done in self-defense. (166.190) It is effectively seen as a warning that continuation of the actions may result in defense against those actions (impending felonious violent attack).

    Any further use of the weapon, however, would depend on the justifiability of the situation, requiring being in jeopardy of lethal harm. There is nothing that I know of (at least in Oregon) that legally demands someone be forced behind the curve (denied the right to draw as warning) and hamstrung up until the point of actual lethal force being executed against a person (which, almost by definition, would be too late). The moment someone reasonably believes a deadly attack is about to occur, one may actually use the gun (fire) in defense. (ORS 161.209, ORS 161.219) The reality is, the mere fact the BG attempts to surmount the initial drawing and defensive posture makes a strong case that the BG believes he can overcome the defense and commit his violent attack.

    test case material? Possibly. But if my life and that of my child is being put at risk by someone growing more violent by the moment, and that person decides to rush me in attempt to disarm me after being clearly warned of the result of any continuation of the flow of his violence, I would not allow him to make it to my child. Either the car, my firearm or some other method is going to stop the BG short of that goal, if I'm able. Nothing in law (so far as I am able to find) demands I succumb to a violent attack in that manner, nor allow my child to endure such an attack. The BG would be stopped, lethally if he required it.

    Note: As always, none of these comments are intended to be construed as legal advice or recommendations. These are simply made as my interpretation of the relevant statutes and a description of the manner of my (planned) self-defense in such a hypothetical scenario.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    freakshow10mm – I thought this guy would be like most panhandlers (you say no, they go away), didn’t see him as that much of a threat until he said “Or what?”
    I would think so too. However I would still act in the manner described above. At the words "or what" he could have produced a weapon, in that case the first step is already done: My gun is out of the holster.

    I am more leary of panhandlers than "ordinary" criminals.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  4. #33
    Member Array CraigJS's Avatar
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    Start the car, drive off, if he blocks your path, dial 911. If he blocks your path and pulls a gun, his panhandling days are over and he becomes a grease spot. Literally anything he can do to your car with his hands or feet are a small fraction of you defending yourself $$$ wise. Your in your car with your kid, first priority is to keep he/she safe. Also if you saw this unfolding why did you wait for the confrontation? You said you had enough gas to go somewhere else.. Part of self defence is trying NOT to get into a situation where you need to draw or fire your weapon. As far as you looking bad to your child, a perfect time to explain why you did it this way. My opinion and nothing more..
    Be safe..

  5. #34
    Senior Member Array Devone6's Avatar
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    To agree with what many have already said- IMO, you should have left at the start.

    But IMO, you handled it ok, as you and yours are ok.

  6. #35
    Member Array gamboolman's Avatar
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    Leave,
    De-escalation
    If things had gone bad, I believe it would be hard to defend not having left
    I would have left
    I have had pan handlers come up when I am already outside the truck and pumping gas - that is a very different scenario.
    You could have easily left
    Leave and get your family away from a potential threat

  7. #36
    Member Array Gelicious's Avatar
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    I think you did just fine. While looking at him and distracting him with your speech patterns I would have been using my hand with the keys to find the ignition and get the car started without drawing to much attention to myself. Then drove off as fast as possible. Once clear call the police and inform them of this presance and the possible threat to other drivers.

    You could have also warned him about your means of lethal force. Although after he seemed to not care that you were calling the police, saying something like " I can and will use deadly force if you do not back off" would really help the problem.

    With kids in the car, things get tricky, for their saftey and yours! I really think you did the right thing and I'm proud of your son for being in yellow alert!
    I carry because I care.
    "An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject."
    "Cling to the Father and His Holy name, and don't go riding on the Long Black Train" - Josh Turner

  8. #37
    New Member Array swavy00's Avatar
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    Granted your biggest assest is the car you are in, but your back up plan should be your pistol. If he would have brought his hand out with a gun and started firing could you have drawn and aimed and shot before he could get a few thru your windshield? Keys not in the ignition, car isn't running. Draw your weapon and be ready to aim and fire. If it isn't needed, then get the keys in the switch and get out of there. If it is, then at least you aren't a few seconds behind.

  9. #38
    Senior Member Array threefeathers's Avatar
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    I would have driven off and called the police and given them a heads up.

  10. #39
    New Member Array tdix's Avatar
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    I agree with everybody who said drive off, no harm no foul,BUT for further reference. When I'm out of my car I holster, when in my car I unholster and carry in the map carrier, virtually all cars have these days along the lower side of the door. My left hand can move and not even be seen and be on my gun. My right hand is free to start the ignition or drive. I plan to never shoot anybody, but will and will be prepared should I have to. With my hand already on my gun the rest is quick. I'd practice this move and make sure you have the concealment place and EASY access in your car.
    I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop!

  11. #40
    VIP Member Array NCHornet's Avatar
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    I agree the map pocket is a great holster in itself. A car jacker or bum like this can't see you drawing your weapon until it is in his face.
    First let me say, glad you and your son are ok. Hind sight is 20/20 but as soon as I saw the guy and got the uneasy feeling the gun would be unholstered and in my right hand down low. The car would be started and I would simply drive off before he approached the vehicle. I believe in avoiding all confrontation whenever possible. If he would have all of a sudden charged the car and went for my sons door or ...... he would be looking down the pipe. AQgain glad y'all are okay.
    When Seconds Count, The Cops Are Just Minutes Away!!
    Carry On!
    NCHornet

  12. #41
    Senior Member Array cagueits's Avatar
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    Thanks to all who have posted/PMed.

    I haven't responded to a couple of the posts in the thread yet, as I've had a hard time translating the self defense clause on Puerto Rico's law into english (all I keep finding is the published 1974 law and we just had a new law come into effect on 2004). I'm planning a visit to the state's district court library to see if they have an official "in english" version that I can copy the clause from, otherwise it'll be a trip to the appellate or supreme court's law library. Once I get that done I'll respond and go from the responses I get back.

    Hope you'all had a good xmas and happy new years (and 3 kings day to those who celebrate it).

  13. #42
    Senior Member Array Shizzlemah's Avatar
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    My 2c - when the BG got his second sentence out, I'd have focused on getting out of there.

    When the BG steps to the front of the car - keys in the ignition.


    I tend to be more paranoid / protective when I am with my family.

  14. #43
    New Member Array actionshooter's Avatar
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    You did a good job handling this. I would have drawn as he approached the car and kept the weapon out of sight. Call me paranoid but better safe than sorry. When he put his hand in his pocket my gun would have been a couple of inches below the dashboard to keep it out of sight but ready to instantly engage the threat. If the hand comes out of the pocket with a gun, remember to aim low as windshield glass deflects your impact point up from your point of aim when firing from inside the vehicle.

    The advantage of bluetooth technology presents itself here as well.

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