Holding gun on someone

This is a discussion on Holding gun on someone within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Suppose you draw your weapon and have every right to do so. You tell the BG not to move. Whats to keep him from running ...

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Thread: Holding gun on someone

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    Holding gun on someone

    Suppose you draw your weapon and have every right to do so. You tell the BG not to move. Whats to keep him from running away if he so chooses to do so. You can't shoot him in the back or anywhere else for that matter if he is trying to flee the area. Is this really something to even consider doing to try to keep someone there at the scene? It's good for keeping the BG at a distance from coming at you, but is it practical to think you can keep someone from running away by pointing a gun at them?

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    Member Array foreveryoung001's Avatar
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    Being very new to CCW (Still waiting to go before the gun board in January) I can only speak from a view point of trying to become mentally prepared.

    As someone who is quite skilled in martial arts, I never really felt the need to carry until recently. As I get older, I do not move as fast, and my training has changed so I am not nearly as strong as I was 10 or 15 years ago. But I would hope that I would have the same mental aspect to carrying as I did when I really felt that I could physically defend myself and family.

    If I had ever found myself in a situation to physically strike someone, it would only be to end whatever action it was that they were doing. If they fled after that, I would not chase. I am not a LEO so I have no skill nor training in holding anyone. I would think the same would apply to my firearm. If I am faced with a situation where I have to pull it from holster and use it, then either the suspect will run and I will not give chase or he will be in no condition to run anywhere before the police show up.

    just my thoughts.
    When the messenger arrives and says 'Don't shoot the messenger,' it's a good idea to be prepared to shoot the messenger, just in case.

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    What made me think of this was my brother and i were talking and he said something about holding someone there till the cops arrived ( with my gun ). I asked him "Whats to keep him from just running off? I cant just shoot him". He never thought about that. I wouldnt pursue the guy , but I wouldnt be unrealistic and think i could hold him there with my firearm. I think to alot of people ,the urge to keep someone there so the law could take hold would be very strong..

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    Member Array robinsonre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robere View Post
    Suppose you draw your weapon and have every right to do so. You tell the BG not to move. Whats to keep him from running away if he so chooses to do so. You can't shoot him in the back or anywhere else for that matter if he is trying to flee the area. Is this really something to even consider doing to try to keep someone there at the scene? It's good for keeping the BG at a distance from coming at you, but is it practical to think you can keep someone from running away by pointing a gun at them?
    It's a psychological thing.

    Fear is the only thing holding him there. Legally, you can't shoot him while he's fleeing, but he may not know that...and even if he knows you can't that doesn't mean you won't. Are you mentally stable, are you ready to kill him, do you think you could get away with it? These are all the things that would be going through my mind if you had your gun trained on me. Generally, given an option between surrender to the police or the immediate trauma of a piece of jacketed led penetrating your organs most rational people would surrender....but if he runs I guess you just have to let the police handle it.
    "Life exists at a level of complexity almost beyond our ability to comprehend. It's a well known fact that if you try to take apart a cat to see how it works one of the first things you have on your hands is a non-working cat" - Douglas Adams

    "All things are governed by law" - Hippocrates

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    Member Array Maverick7340's Avatar
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    I will not pull my gun unless I plan on using it to defend a life. If I bring deadly force to a situation that didn't require it then the DA will have a field day with that one if things took a turn for the worst. I am not a LEO so it isn't my job to try to hold someone until the cops get there. Like you said the BG can run away and you can't do anything anymore because they are no longer a threat to you anymore. While you are waiting there for the cops to come and make a report the BG could get his own gun or/and friends and come back to do you harm.
    So, if I have to get my gun out I will be doing it to defend a life and the BG will hopefully be the guy laying next to the big red puddle.
    Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway.

    John Wayne

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    So to throw a bit more into the mix..Maybe you should talk like a crazy person so the BG might think " this guy is crazy enough to shoot me if i run "........??

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    Member Array robinsonre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick7340 View Post
    I will not pull my gun unless I plan on using it to defend a life. If I bring deadly force to a situation that didn't require it then the DA will have a field day with that one if things took a turn for the worst. I am not a LEO so it isn't my job to try to hold someone until the cops get there. Like you said the BG can run away and you can't do anything anymore because they are no longer a threat to you anymore. While you are waiting there for the cops to come and make a report the BG could get his own gun or/and friends and come back to do you harm.
    So, if I have to get my gun out I will be doing it to defend a life and the BG will hopefully be the guy laying next to the big red puddle.
    This is a good point, but what if the BG sees your gun and immediately backs down. I.E. He approaches with a knife, you draw but before you fire he drops the knife "woah man...didn't know you had one of those"...

    Now you have an interesting dilemma on your hands. Technically, you could probably still shoot him and get away with it..society would probably be better off having one less criminal on the streets. Personally, however I would find it difficult within my own conscience to shoot someone who was now unarmed and surrendering. If you turn your back and let him run off there's no telling what, or whom he could come back with for revenge. Maybe the best option is to hold him until the police arrive. It's all just conjecture for me as I've never been in this exact situation.
    "Life exists at a level of complexity almost beyond our ability to comprehend. It's a well known fact that if you try to take apart a cat to see how it works one of the first things you have on your hands is a non-working cat" - Douglas Adams

    "All things are governed by law" - Hippocrates

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    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
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    If I see that lethal force is being threatened, or actually being applied, I draw. I will shoot when I get the sights lined up--no time for speeches. If the BG runs before I get the sights lined up on him, I don't shoot and let him go.

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    Member Array robinsonre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    If I see that lethal force is being threatened, or actually being applied, I draw. I will shoot when I get the sights lined up--no time for speeches. If the BG runs before I get the sights lined up on him, I don't shoot and let him go.
    And if he stops threatening but doesn't run? Let's say, for example, that he hits the ground and covers his head.
    "Life exists at a level of complexity almost beyond our ability to comprehend. It's a well known fact that if you try to take apart a cat to see how it works one of the first things you have on your hands is a non-working cat" - Douglas Adams

    "All things are governed by law" - Hippocrates

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    Member Array MIKEV's Avatar
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    The use of deadly force if legally authorized in the first place ends immediately when the intial threat ends. A fleeing BG in and of itself is no longer a threat. Deadly force cannot be used to hold him until LEO arrival.

    That said the use of deadly force on a fleeing felon is acceptable but under very specific limitaions in some jurisdictions. Find out what those limitations are in your Jurisdiction and base your decisions accordingly.

    Thanks
    MikeV

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    Member Array riversdaddy's Avatar
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    The one stateside incident were I held a gun on someone on my property involved a whole lot of lying on my part about what I would do if he tried to run. I used some colorful language to describe what a .223 round would do to his head. Basicly, I behaved like the "unstable criminal" to get my point across, all the while knowing that if he decided to run I would let him do just that. He decided it would be better to lean up against my truck and wait for the police. He left my front yard in cuffs, and the police told me I had every right to do what I did. It's nice living in Arkansas. I didn't know if I'd like it when I was stationed there, but I'm sorta glad I did now.

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    Member Array robinsonre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEV View Post
    The use of deadly force if legally authorized in the first place ends immediately when the intial threat ends. A fleeing BG in and of itself is no longer a threat. Deadly force cannot be used to hold him until LEO arrival.

    That said the use of deadly force on a fleeing felon is acceptable but under very specific limitaions in some jurisdictions. Find out what those limitations are in your Jurisdiction and base your decisions accordingly.

    Thanks
    MikeV
    Well, this is exactly where the problem arrives. If he stops advancing, but doesnt run, who is to say he's no longer a threat.

    He drops the knife, you put your gun away, he pulls his and shoots...

    He drops the knife, you put your gun away, he charges you and beats you to death..

    Then there's the other bad option. He drops the knife, you don't put your gun away, he flinches, you shoot, and later find out he was unarmed.

    It's a Bad Bad Bad situation to be in. I'm really not sure how to best handle this one.
    "Life exists at a level of complexity almost beyond our ability to comprehend. It's a well known fact that if you try to take apart a cat to see how it works one of the first things you have on your hands is a non-working cat" - Douglas Adams

    "All things are governed by law" - Hippocrates

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    Member Array MIKEV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinsonre View Post
    Well, this is exactly where the problem arrives. If he stops advancing, but doesnt run, who is to say he's no longer a threat.

    He drops the knife, you put your gun away, he pulls his and shoots...

    He drops the knife, you put your gun away, he charges you and beats you to death..
    Please note, At no time did I say "put my gun away"

    Believe me BG would be covered by the muzzle of my handgun until the arrival of LEO. Leo would find him face down spread eagle with palms facing skyward. Unless he decided to run before that. That takes care of the flinching part too.

    Thanks
    Mikev

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    Member Array robinsonre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEV View Post
    Please note, At no time did I say "put my gun away"

    Believe me BG would be covered by the muzzle of my handgun until the arrival of LEO. Leo would find him face down spread eagle with palms facing skyward. Unless he decided to run before that. That takes care of the flinching part too.

    Thanks
    Mikev
    Ah, I'm sorry I misunderstood you.
    "Life exists at a level of complexity almost beyond our ability to comprehend. It's a well known fact that if you try to take apart a cat to see how it works one of the first things you have on your hands is a non-working cat" - Douglas Adams

    "All things are governed by law" - Hippocrates

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    Member Array MIKEV's Avatar
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    No worries.

    MikeV

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