Revolver Gun Grab to Preclude Firing

This is a discussion on Revolver Gun Grab to Preclude Firing within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; (I searched for this, could not find it on the forum, sorry if this has been discussed) Curious if anyone here has trained to "gun ...

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Thread: Revolver Gun Grab to Preclude Firing

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    Revolver Gun Grab to Preclude Firing

    (I searched for this, could not find it on the forum, sorry if this has been discussed)

    Curious if anyone here has trained to "gun grab" a revolver with either an enclosed hammer, such as the 642, or an uncocked hammer, such as a 637.

    Once the hammer is cocked, it's SA and the cylinder need not rotate to fire. However, if the revolver has an enclosed hammer, or if the hammer is not cocked, the cylinder must rotate for the revolver to fire.

    If you have ever tried to fire a revolver while holding the cylinder, you will realize that it cannot be done. The gun will likely break before it fires, provided the person can pull the trigger hard enough. The reason for this is the force moment resulting from gripping the outside radius of the cylinder is much more than can be provided to the ratchet by use of the trigger.

    So, that seems to be a vulnerability that can be exploited. Unlike an autoloader, which will fire then jam when held, the revolver will not fire. However, if you let go, it will be able to fire. So once grabbed, I would think one wants to grab with both hands and hang on for dear life while trying to strip the gun from the assailant's hands.

    Anyone here have any training experience in such a maneuver? Have you successfully prevented the revolver from "firing," i.e., prevented it from cycling and firing on a snap cap?
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    0-5 feet courses generally teach both how to do it, and how to defend against it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    (I searched for this, could not find it on the forum, sorry if this has been discussed)

    Curious if anyone here has trained to "gun grab" a revolver with either an enclosed hammer, such as the 642, or an uncocked hammer, such as a 637.

    Once the hammer is cocked, it's SA and the cylinder need not rotate to fire. However, if the revolver has an enclosed hammer, or if the hammer is not cocked, the cylinder must rotate for the revolver to fire.

    If you have ever tried to fire a revolver while holding the cylinder, you will realize that it cannot be done. The gun will likely break before it fires, provided the person can pull the trigger hard enough. The reason for this is the force moment resulting from gripping the outside radius of the cylinder is much more than can be provided to the ratchet by use of the trigger.

    So, that seems to be a vulnerability that can be exploited. Unlike an autoloader, which will fire then jam when held, the revolver will not fire. However, if you let go, it will be able to fire. So once grabbed, I would think one wants to grab with both hands and hang on for dear life while trying to strip the gun from the assailant's hands.

    Anyone here have any training experience in such a maneuver? Have you successfully prevented the revolver from "firing," i.e., prevented it from cycling and firing on a snap cap?
    Nope, and that's a darn interesting question/problem.

    Every gun-disarm I can recall from the Krav books has involved a semi-auto or a long gun.

    With a snub there isn't that much room to grab hold of much of anything. Also because the barrel is short there is little of the leverage needed to strip it out of an opponent's hand.

    I'm sitting here trying to think it through. Breaking the opponent's trigger finger by rotating the gun might solve a problem depending on how everything lines up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    0-5 feet courses generally teach both how to do it, and how to defend against it.
    Care to describe a method? Link to a video of one, etc.?
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    Even though it is possible to keep a revolver or a semi-auto from firing if you grab them a certain way, it's going to be best not to aim for that in the disarm. Instead, focus on the disarm itself, expect the shot to be fired (you are incorporating the deflection and evasion in the move, right?) and consider it a happy circumstance if you get away without loud noises. Trying to hold a certain way instead of just grabbing it hard, you increase the risk of a miss or error in the move. Don't want that.
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    Senior Member Array patri0t's Avatar
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    I have done a few 'gun-grabs' in my LE career, mostly from overwrought citizens whom were not professionally trained (if trained at all).
    Never heard of a dept than offered such training; that would mean they 'condone' such attempts and would be subject to liability if a LEO were injured in such attempt.

    Some rare opportunities may avail themselves, but overall, gun grabs seem a last resort with very poor odds.
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    That's why I don't give much credence to the grab the semi's slide argument - you can just as "easily" grab a cylinder or put your hand/finger btwn hammer/frame if the hammer is exposed. You don't need much real estate to catch a snubbie's barrel with the web of your hand - try making a fist with just the last bone of your thumb sticking past the first bone of your index finger (making a "T") then rapidly jamb your other hand against the front of your fist and see how easily the web catches on your thumb.

    I think I'd rather keep either one close to my hip and fire from there as opposed to thrusting either into the reach of the bad guy.
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    I recalled seeing a thread where a forum member did a revolver disarm. See the linked thread

    Happened to me in parking lot.

    He seemed to have executed it perfectly since he broke the BG's finger.

    Edit: The Forum Member was Echo Four.
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    Ayoob mentioned the cylinder grab on "hammerless" revolvers in my LFI-1 class, but that was a technique taught in his advanced courses.
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    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    Can't believe I missed that thread - Echo's last post reminded me of the story of the Marines at Toy's for Tots helping the guy up that broke his arm, wrist and teeth on the pavement after stabbing one of them. One more time - great job.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    Can't believe I missed that thread - Echo's last post reminded me of the story of the Marines at Toy's for Tots helping the guy up that broke his arm, wrist and teeth on the pavement after stabbing one of them. One more time - great job.
    Too bad THAT story was mostly fabricated, though.


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    Recall that Oswald was apprehended in the theater after one of the LEOs grabbed his gun and put the web of his hand under the cocked hammer.

    I've had some gun grab training. If you are able to push the slide slightly out of battery - no BANG. But you better start practicing now. Also, practice how to twist the gun out of the grip of your opponent:

    First grab the gun hard and fast around the slide/cylinder and deflect the barrel's trajectory while simultaneously moving yourself in the other direction.

    Twist:

    1. Into the thumb, gun breaks free.
    2. Away from the thimb, trap trigger finger and use for pain compliance.

    If you are on the lateral, strike the outside of the elbow with your free hand and reverse it's natural movement. Alternatively use the hyperflexion to direct the body to the ground. Pressure on the shoulder may be alternatively helpful.

    This stuff is hard to explain and harder to accomplish, demonstration and practice are much better. Success rates are variable therefore don't attempt unless it's to certainly save your life.
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    I was trained in disarms for autos and revolvers. Didn't include cylinder grab. Did include the disclaimer "This is what you do if you are sure he's going to shoot you and you have nothing to lose."

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    Quote Originally Posted by CR Williams View Post
    Even though it is possible to keep a revolver or a semi-auto from firing if you grab them a certain way, it's going to be best not to aim for that in the disarm. Instead, focus on the disarm itself, expect the shot to be fired (you are incorporating the deflection and evasion in the move, right?) and consider it a happy circumstance if you get away without loud noises. Trying to hold a certain way instead of just grabbing it hard, you increase the risk of a miss or error in the move. Don't want that.
    Yup. Expect a discharge and consider yourself lucky to if it doesn't happen. Personally, my attack for a revolver disarm will steer clear of the cylinder. I do not want to get bit by the cylinder gap in the event of a discharge, I am quite sure!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doghandler View Post
    Yup. Expect a discharge and consider yourself lucky to if it doesn't happen. Personally, my attack for a revolver disarm will steer clear of the cylinder. I do not want to get bit by the cylinder gap in the event of a discharge, I am quite sure!
    If it is an un-cocked double action, it will not fire if the cylinder is grasped. On a semi, it will fire once, then malfunction if the slide is grasped. If the semi is driven out of battery, it won't fire. These are all good things to know, whichever end of the gun grab you are on.
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