This is a discussion on Where/how/to what extent do you shoot? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The big question would be is he armed? Shoot now and you might be prosecuted for murder or manslauter....
Using sights - 2 COM shots, then check if target keeps advancing towards me.
Using sights - 2 COM + 1 Head Shot, then check if target keeps advancing towards me.
Using sights - All COM shots until slide locks.
Using sights - 1 Head Shot, then check if target keeps advancing towards me.
Using sights - All Head Shots until slide locks.
Using point method - 2 COM shots, then check if target keeps advancing towards me.
Using point method - 2 COM + 1 Head Shot, then check if target keeps advancing towards me.
Using point method - All COM shots until slide locks.
Using point method - 1 Head Shot, then check if target keeps advancing towards me.
Using point method - All Head Shots until slide locks.
Using laser - 2 COM shots, then check if target keeps advancing towards me.
Using laser - 2 COM shots + 1 Head Shot, then check if target keeps advancing towards me.
Using laser - All COM shots until slide locks.
Using laser - 1 Head Shot, then check if target keeps advancing towards me.
Using laser - All Head Shots until slide locks.
The big question would be is he armed? Shoot now and you might be prosecuted for murder or manslauter.
Last edited by Tom G; April 12th, 2007 at 10:22 PM.
If the threat is inbound at speed from 15 feet with a knife, if he had a gun, odds are good he wouldn't be charging you, but would instead be waving it around menacingly and shouting, trying to intimidate all present and gain control of the situation, his intent may be to get a hold of a hostage and use that as leverage to control the situation.
You might, be able to clear your cover garment and draw your weapon as you step off his line of attack, but, the distance is too close and more than likely he will stab you, before you can get the pistol oriented towards him.
What you could do, is not go for your weapon, step off line and with your off hand deflect the thrust away, then with your dominant hand push off his shoulder, spinning yourself away from his line and further throwing him off balance (he may even stumble and fall being thrown off his stride) and using his momentum to open the distance, drawing as you back peddle, this should give you sufficient time and space to acquire a good sight picture and there is the possibility that the threat may cease as he comes to the realisation that the odds are no longer in his favor, if he turns and ignores your shouted command and takes a step in your direction, remember you are not static, you continue to open distance, then engage him, with as many rounds as needed to end the threat.
When facing a person with an impact or thrusting weapon, distance and movement is life.
In the above you will get cut on the hand or maybe forearm as you deflect the thrust of the knife away from you, but that is better than a blade in your chest or stomach and should you suffer damage to the weak hand, it is not as great a concern than if your primary was injured.
As far as placement, I favor high COM, a hands width above the zyphoid, drop lower and you are still COM, higher and you are hitting the crest of the collar bone and throat, with a better than average chance that a bullet will have sufficient penetration to reach the spine and end the threats ability to do anything at all.
Every situation is different and fraught with variables and what may work for one, will not for the another, we just have to try our best and with a bit of luck, will walk away, with a little more experience under our belt.
Last edited by Shaughn; April 14th, 2007 at 10:39 AM.
i voted COM shots till slide locks, however, if IT drops before that then i would most likely stop. i also use COM lightly because in this situation, i would already be firing as i'm drawing up (roughly around IT's knees and thighs).
What's this button do?
If the target is 15ft and coming at you full speed you don,t have time to use sights!!!!!!! c.o.m. tell it stops or i am out of ammo then to jail and a call to the lawer
At that range I would point and go to slide lock, either intentionally or just because I ran out of ammo before IT stopped advancing. I can empty a mag pretty quick and believe that's what I would do without thinking in that situation.
“Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it.” ~Pericles of Athens
Primary Carry - Colt Commander .45 in a Brommeland Max-Con V
Only one BG, no need to conserve ammo, so I go COM until slide lock.
"Beware of the man who only owns one gun. He probably knows how to use it."
None of the above.
We're given a choice between "two shots COM, assess"; "two shots COM, then head shot"; and "shoot COM to slide lock." And we're told to pick ONE sight method & go with it.
Shoot the middle of the biggest target you can see (usually chest) until either the threat drops & is out, or until the threat has failed to stop and is so close that a transition to a head shot is a good & necessary thing. (Unless there are other reasons to try a headshot first, but there don't seem to be any compelling reasons to try for the smaller, harder target in the scenario as given.)
Sighting method? Take whatever sighting method is there first as you draw, move off the X and get to cover. That means, activate laser as gun comes out of holster; if the laser dot is ON the target from that position, fire immediately. If no laser, take a shot from a retention index, catch an incomplete/flash sight picture (front sight on target's chest) and take that shot; as the gun comes up from there into a familiar pointshooting index take a shot from there; transition into a complete sight picture if I still have time but if not continue to use whatever I get -- and who knows, maybe the laser will be there for some or all of that and if it is, I'll use that as soon as I see it but if not, no biggie, I can use iron sights just as well; if I can't use iron sights, no biggie, I can pointshoot just as well.
Take what you get, move, and keep shooting until the threat has stopped. Don't get wrapped around the axle in details but be well practiced in all of it.
Last edited by pax; May 3rd, 2007 at 01:45 PM. Reason: spelling. *sigh*
My website: Cornered Cat
W/O reading too much into this scenario, I'd point shoot (Or whatever name you want to call a system where I'm not fully bringing the sights fully up & aligning them).
Since I usually pocket carry my PM9 in my strong side pocket & in a place like a bank, I actually have my hands (At least gun hand) in my pocket. I would draw as I angle away, not straight back & fire. I'd probably double tap COM, maybe 3 shots, or however many 'til IT is down. Then assess for others being in the area, as well as whether IT is still down.
I'd also be yelling out a bunch of commands. Simple at first, while there's a threat. But after the threat's down & there's no other threat, then I'd be directing people to stay put/down & calling the authorities of whatever city the bank's in.
"Use human means as though divine ones didn't exist, and divine means as though there were no human ones." Baltasar Gracian
Integrated Close Combat
Glock 19 & 26, Kahr CM9 & P45, Para P12, Kel-Tec P-32, S&W 442, & Dan Wesson 14-2.
Then COM shots until the action is stopped, however many that takes. If that is until the slide locks back...fine, I reload.
"You can't shake the devils hand and say you were only kidding"