Irrational belief.

This is a discussion on Irrational belief. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The video posted by tacman in another thread has me thinking ( I know not good ) but here we go. Here is the video ...

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Thread: Irrational belief.

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Irrational belief.

    The video posted by tacman in another thread has me thinking ( I know not good ) but here we go. Here is the video in case you have not seen it..



    We see in the video that our Bad guy is not scared of the weapon in the officers hands. In fact he does not appear to be scared of anything being presented by law enforcement at all..

    Now, lets talk about the belief that the bad guy when they see the gun, will just run away. While in some cases this is true as seen in the video, it is not always the case. Which type of event should we prepare for. Bad guy running away, or bad guy wanting to continue on? To me it is a no brainer. Prepare for the bad guy fighting.

    In my opinion thinking that the presence of a weapon will just scare the bad guy and make him go away is an irrational belief. It is also my opinion that that type of thinking could, and I only say could get someone killed. The hesitation, the not being sure and the finality of the situation could cause a freeze when action is required.
    How many of you actually prepare for this type of situation? Have you prepared your mind for this? Are your skills with your weapon system up to the task? What the officer did in my opinion looked easy, but it is my belief that he was prepared for the task at hand. Are you ready for that task?

    You mind is a marvel capable of many great things. Not everyone is cut out for these types of situations, to be honest I was not sure of my self until something very similar happened to me. My mental preps were simple. I was not going to allow someone to steal my piece. I was not going to allow someone to harm any of my family or myself. I was not going to allow someone to dictate my life. Period. It has been and will continue to be, my simple way of making sure that I am ready should the need arise again. Learn from others experience then draw your line in the sand, you and you alone are responsible for that.

    Skills are a very hot topic. I am only go to touch on it. Find some sort of training. Make sure that you are proficient with your weapon choice. If you didn't count the number of shots the officer fired you might want to do that. Make sure that you have enough weapon for the job.

    Am I ready for this. This is a real question and being honest with yourself it is very important . Bravado is fine in the school yard. Most Men will not admit if they are not ready, do not be that guy. Ask questions, pull information from multiple sources. What I have learned from students is that most people have a false belief that things will go their way, when in reality it will not. Moral of this story, be ready, find good information, leave your ego at the door and ready yourself for the worse situation.

    Be safe out there....

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    Very sound advice indeed. Should the BG run away, fine. If not don't hesitate. Prepare mentally for the worst and practice!
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    VIP Member Array StormRhydr's Avatar
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    I couldnt agree more with you, Harry. I was taught never to pull a gun unless you fully intended to use it. And I dont mean that you must then pull the trigger, but at the time you pulled it, it was not in bluff, or to scare someone away. It was to use it if the threat still was present.

    There was one woman in my Tactical Response Fighting Pistol class. Nice woman. Didnt know a thing about weapons when she got there. She & her Husband were going thru the course together. When she moved rapidly (during training), she would kind of "skip".

    She did everything that she was told to do, but I left firmly convinced that she was "most likely to be killed...with her own gun". That she had the skills, but not the mindset to handle crunch time.
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    Distinguished Member Array Exacto's Avatar
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    I guess he should have put the knife down like he was told. Suicide by cop.
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    Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunder bolt...... Sun Tzu.

    The supreme art of war is to defeat the enemy without fighting........ Sun Tzu.

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    One has to prepare for all three potential responses from a would-be assailant. It is probably a bad plan to shoot him if he runs away or freezes. To assume he will do one thing or another based simply on the presence of a lethal weapon is, like you said, irrational.
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    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
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    VIP Member Array OutWestSystems's Avatar
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    My belief is this guy welcomed the sight of the officer and his firearm. It is hard to stab and kill yourself, much easier to have someone do the work for you. That is what I am pretty sure this guy did, suicide by cop. I feel bad for the officers and the lady, not so much for the guy.

    Once you pull your firearm out, you better have the intention of pulling that trigger. Everyone should at least spend a little time asking themselves honestly if they can pull the trigger. I had that movement the first time I was issued live ammo as security when I was in the military. I spend 4 hours sitting here seriously considering if I could pull the trigger under all of the situation in which my training said use of deadly force was authorized. By the end of those hours I decided that I could do it. If you haven't spent that time, you might want to, I realized that it was not a cut and dry as I thought when I first joined.

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    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Great post! I used to visualize things going my way, but the more experience I got, the more I try to visualize the unexpected happening (BG goes down, then rolls over and produces a weapon; BG gets a hand on my gun, etc.).

    I think the most important mental/training lesson I have ever learned is, "you are never out of the fight." Just my $.02.





    If I had something witty to say, it would be posted right here _______
    "My problem with life is not that it is rational nor that it is irrational, but that it is almost rational." - G.K. Chesterton

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    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StormRhydr View Post
    I couldnt agree more with you, Harry. I was taught never to pull a gun unless you fully intended to use it. And I dont mean that you must then pull the trigger, but at the time you pulled it, it was not in bluff, or to scare someone away. It was to use it if the threat still was present.

    There was one woman in my Tactical Response Fighting Pistol class. Nice woman. Didnt know a thing about weapons when she got there. She & her Husband were going thru the course together. When she moved rapidly (during training), she would kind of "skip".

    She did everything that she was told to do, but I left firmly convinced that she was "most likely to be killed...with her own gun". That she had the skills, but not the mindset to handle crunch time.
    Exactly Bro, I think it is over looked most times..

    Quote Originally Posted by Badey View Post
    Great post! I used to visualize things going my way, but the more experience I got, the more I try to visualize the unexpected happening (BG goes down, then rolls over and produces a weapon; BG gets a hand on my gun, etc.).

    I think the most important mental/training lesson I have ever learned is, "you are never out of the fight." Just my $.02.





    If I had something witty to say, it would be posted right here _______
    In bold. I believe that is a very important training aid. I agree with your statement that you are never out of the fight.
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    VIP Member Array Kennydale's Avatar
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    My former boss's daughter & son in law had a home invasion. The daughter was on the top floor with a shotgun, his son in law had a handgun at top of stairs. The BG kicked in the door and had a baseball bat. Came up the stairs at the son in law. The Son in law said i have a gun, I will shoot.. The BG said "I DON'T CARE" (my boss seemed to think this guy was hopped up on something). The outcome is Don't bring a baseball bat to a gunfight.
    Last edited by Kennydale; January 18th, 2014 at 09:23 PM.
    G-d, Make me fast and accurate. Let my aim be true and my hand faster than those who would seek to destroy me. And G-d if today is truly the day you call me home, then let me die in a pile of empty brass.

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    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    I agree with Harry be ready. Then again you may not have much time to think about just what you are going to do (as shown in this video) so you better be ready with the drawing of the weapon.

    Witchita Police Shooting in Dollar General, Opened Fire Shooting 35 Shots (Graphic Video) - YouTube
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    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

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    Member Array Sgt45's Avatar
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    I heard about this but hadn't seen the video. I had first thought "trigger happy cop", after seeing the video, the boy may have been mental or whatever, but the cop was 100% right. As to the question, yes, Combat Mindset is THE most important thing you can bring to any encounter. I feel bad for the woman, especially the cop, but not for the perp.
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    Senior Member Array Kasey88's Avatar
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    My Dad use to tell me never pull a gun unless you were going to use it..I said,so if someone were to pull a knife on me,and i pulled my weapon and they ran,i should shoot him?.He told me of course not..I said then you should re- think what you told me.

    I don't know what i would do in a bad situation.I really have no clue. The one thing i know i can't let happen is for someone to end up taking my weapon and possibly killing me or someone else.We just have to try and do what we think is best.Of course i know,it's easier said than done.
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    VIP Member Array blitzburgh's Avatar
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    It's essential that anybody who thinks about carrying a gun, thinks about whether or not they could pull the trigger. Like I said in the other thread, if you can't pull the trigger, you shouldn't be carrying. Seriously, think about it. For example:

    You carry a gun for SD. You haven't thought about whether or not you could pull the trigger and possibly take a life. You feel there's no need to because "the BG will urinate and/or defecate all over himself at the mere sight of your gun!". Well, it just so happens you come across a BG who decides you're the one and unfortunately for you, he's constipated and he isn't the running type. You a) decide you just can't bring yourself to pull the trigger or b) you're trying to figure out if you can or can't, at the worst possible time. Your gun gets taken from you, he silently thanks you because before you pulled yours, he didn't have one. You're murdered with your own gun. Turns out, if you would have never introduced the gun and got it taken from you, he was just going to beat you up and take your wallet.

    Preparing yourself mentally is at least as important as doing so physically.
    "Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." - Benjamin Franklin
    "Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn." - C.S. Lewis

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    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    I agree with Harry be ready. Then again you may not have much time to think about just what you are going to do (as shown in this video) so you better be ready with the drawing of the weapon.

    Witchita Police Shooting in Dollar General, Opened Fire Shooting 35 Shots (Graphic Video) - YouTube
    This video is good at showing what "stopping power" looks like from a handgun. I'm not sure how many of those 35 rounds hit, but that guy (despite being mortally wounded) didn't even look like he had been hit at first.
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    Distinguished Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasey88 View Post
    My Dad use to tell me never pull a gun unless you were going to use it..I said,so if someone were to pull a knife on me,and i pulled my weapon and they ran,i should shoot him?.He told me of course not..I said then you should re- think what you told me.

    I don't know what i would do in a bad situation.I really have no clue. The one thing i know i can't let happen is for someone to end up taking my weapon and possibly killing me or someone else.We just have to try and do what we think is best.Of course i know,it's easier said than done.
    YOUR mindset is vitally important!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Do you have children?? Do they need a mom??? Are you married???? Does your husband want you with him forever??? Do your parents want to see their daughter grow older???? DO YOU have the WILL to FIGHT and win????

    Spent some quiet time and visualize in your imagination somebody breaking into your home, intent on rape and murder---think through what your emotions might be, visualize pulling your gun and putting rounds into them before they take you to the floor.

    NEVER, EVER GIVE UP!!!

    Scott, US Army 1974-2004

    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
    - Ronald Reagan

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